Gates....who knows where he stands

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Anti-Homer
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Re: Gates....who knows where he stands

Postby Anti-Homer » Sun May 06, 2018 3:44 pm

X-lucidity wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 8:06 pm
No offense Kaiser, but - Good riddance... I wrote a week or so ago that KG needed to grow a pair, work hard as hell on all facets of his game, and seize his Senior year for all it's worth. I meant that in a supportive way because by all accounts he's a nice & bright kid. But I was skeptical. Having seen him in countless games smiling or smirking as games or stretches of games would be going poorly for X. Apparently he has the heart of a mouse, not a lion, so good luck in your future endeavors young man. I would rather have a slightly less talented player on the floor who plays with fire & passion. The fact that he was seriously considering this, knowing as many have stated he is unlikely to be drafted except for a very remote chance at the back end of Rd 2, tells me all I need to know. His heart isn't and may never have been on a collegiate floor. (Especially knowing he would start next year and be given every opportunity to be our bell cow) Not really a huge loss IMHO. Hopefully Travis can add another JUCO or recruit. If not, we have a tight 8 man rotation which has worked well for us in the past. I want young men who have trouble sleeping the night before games because they can't wait to put the uni on. I want those who burn a bit on the inside when we lose and are motivated to work that much harder in practice to avoid such stinging pain in the future. Mr. Gates never struck me as 'pained' by loss or even his own subpar play. Am I surprised? Yup. Will I lose any sleep tonight? Nope..
X-luc,

I have to disagree. I think this is a big loss, especially with the type of defense Steele wants to employ. He has insinuated they would play pressure defense, as most good teams do. CM never did, which would have been fine, if they weren't horrid playing half court D. However if you can't teach half court D, it's probably wise not to go full court.

Gates could guard players playing positions 2-4, which makes him invaluable, particularly with the press.

I don't know why he declared, but I don't doubt X getting Welage had an impact in his decision making. I'm still glad X got him. I also still like the team a lot, but I was relishing a lineup of Goodin, Scruggs, Gates, Marshall, and Jones playing defense together.
skyhops
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Re: Gates....who knows where he stands

Postby skyhops » Sun May 06, 2018 6:35 pm

Of course it is a big loss. He is getting some bad advice.
X-lucidity
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Re: Gates....who knows where he stands

Postby X-lucidity » Sun May 06, 2018 7:08 pm

Homer & Hops, I can't really argue with your take. Seems like a huge loss. My reaction was more subliminal, in that, the very fact that KG is choosing this path means his heart was not with our program. Sure you can say bringing in Kareem last yr or Wellage this season irritated him. But good God, what does that say about a man's competitive fire.?? Kanter wound up stealing some minutes but for the majority of this season he ate into Big Sean's or T-Jones' more. I say again, if KG could not have read the tea leaves and realized an incredible role as a featured player his Senior campaign, then I question his internal fire. I was in NYC for the BE Tourney. I watched them closely warm up & on the bench. KG seemed distant and not quite as focused or intense than anyone else. That's just my take as a silly youth coach. So for me, being that this head-scratching decision sort of confirms my suspicions, I surmise addition by subtraction. Were KG ready to come back focused and ready to ball-out, then missing that kind of a player would indeed be a huge loss. Sadly, that was not the type of player who would have been suiting up for us next season.
Finally, and incredibly ironically, for most of this weekend take a look at the thread that was just below this one. (before MM tried to cheer us up with that link to JP.) Why it was a nice article about how Brian Grant is using every minute of every day to fight his heart out against the toughest foe of his life. Ironic because there was a kid that took what the good Lord had given him and maximized it at Xavier. Juxtapose that with the pathway Mr. Gates prefers in life...........
XU80
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Re: Gates....who knows where he stands

Postby XU80 » Sun May 06, 2018 10:55 pm

Ok Kaiser, you are out of the bubble that tells you when to wake up, what to eat, when to study, etc... Now you and your agent, check that, you are on your own in a distant place where no one will be showing you the love if you don't perform. Put on your big boy pants as you are going to need them.

You are certainly no BJ Raymond or one of the many other XU Players that waited their turn and had a big senior season.
X-Expert
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Re: Gates....who knows where he stands

Postby X-Expert » Mon May 07, 2018 8:56 am

I really don't understand all these comments that Gates leaving shows he has no balls or lacks competitive fire. NO ONE on this board knows why he chose to go this route. I agree with Hops and Homer that he will be missed. A streaky shooter who does make defenses guard him and a pretty good defensive player. Lucid, I respectfully disagree that just because you saw him at the BE tournament not smile or something for 10 seconds while on the floor has absolutely no bearing. I went to the Musketeer Madness and Naji didn't seem very engaged with other players but that was for a 10 minute stretch that I watched him. Thank God coaches didn't write that off as he being a malcontent. People rushed to defend mack while he was a coach that he tried his best while X was blowing 2 of the last 3 games when they had huge leads. Gates unfortunately never developed into more than a 3 point specialist. He had some success driving but his skill level (or confidence) kept him from doing that. Perhaps these other players have made him decide or maybe he just didn't want to be a student. I heard he stopped going to class after the tourney and before they even got Welage. I wish him well and hope X can replace him.
thecoach
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Re: Gates....who knows where he stands

Postby thecoach » Mon May 07, 2018 9:36 am

If he has offers to play overseas for a 6 figure amount of money, it's probably a sound decision. He's not going to play his way into an nba draft pick next year, and if he is successful overseas some nba team would likely give him a look down the road. As we've seen with a TB, sticking around another year is not the most sound financial decision if you can play overseas. You basically lose several hundred thousand dollars of earnings in that year you came back, and really your professional career is no more enhanced. Are there some guys who enhance their draft status coming back, sure. However, he's very, very unlikely to be one of those guys. He's likely in today's nba almost a tweener at his size, small for a 4 not quick enough for a 3. The development $ wise of overseas leagues has put the ncaa in one of it's many bad spots. You can always argue a degree is so valuable, but the reality is you can finish it later. However, most of these guys are not really exploiting the college degree angle anyways. They're far more likely to end up coaching bball or on tv or radio once their playing days are over.
X-lucidity
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Re: Gates....who knows where he stands

Postby X-lucidity » Mon May 07, 2018 10:16 am

Apologies for yet another post as we beat this horse to a slow & juvenile death - But I wanted to reply to the esteemed X-Expert. Quite frankly, you're missing my point. I did wish Kaiser well in his future endeavors. That was not tongue-in-cheek. I am thankful he chose X and contributed. As The Coach astutely mentions above, the lucrative overseas market adds a new dimension. As for my NY observations, I stand by them, but I also mentioned they were my opinions as a "silly youth b-ball coach". Body language can be very telling especially when it is of a consistent nature - again, my humble opinion. Bottom line is I was trying to address whether it is "HUGE LOSS" next year or not. Please take that aspect into the context of this dialogue. My point is given his nature and apparent lust for that next phase in life of professional B-ball, KG would not have been committed to the cause so to speak next season. Any decent group of talented D-1 players can trudge through a season and post a winning record and top 50 RPI. But to win meaningful games in March you need warriors. Another poster mentioned Mack blowing 2 of the last 3 games. Hey, that's a 'Bingo'. And spot on. We can dissect that on another thread if you'd like. My point here is that given all signs indicating his mind was wandering apparently late this last season and would only erode further were he to have come back next year - See ya, not a huge loss in retrospect...
Finally, for those that disagree, answer me this question. Why did our 2016-2017 squad, who was clearly an inferior group talent wise to this just concluded group, shock the world and reach the elite 8. While this past group fizzled against a very mediocre FSU squad? I contend it is because '16-17 had two additional seasoned "Warriors" in Malcolm Bernard at Rashid Gaston, who both knew their roles and woke up excited to strap on the uni and climb into the trenches with their brothers and fight every four minute war as if it were their last.
That is the mentality that wins in March. OK, I will now cease and desist.
Bottom line, as we now fade into the quiet dormant summer, all of us are completely bummed about how this past season that for so long was full of promise and glory - faded and landed with an unfortunate thud. All of us are dealing with it in our own way.
cincycanesfan
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Re: Gates....who knows where he stands

Postby cincycanesfan » Mon May 07, 2018 10:43 am

Not sure where he is standing today, but I am guessing in a few months he will be standing on a boat on his way to playing bball in one of the lower European leagues.

I am sad to see him leaving, just feel like he never really put it together here outside of a few games.
mumuskie87
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Re: Gates....who knows where he stands

Postby mumuskie87 » Mon May 07, 2018 5:19 pm

thecoach wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 9:18 pm
He never seemed very happy here so it's not totally shocking he would not come back. I do believe there was some bad blood bringing Kanter in last year which did not help matters. There is a downside to bringing transfers in late, and i believe we've also seen it with the loss of Kennedy.
How you do measure happiness?
X-lucid said he was too happy on the court. X-lucid - no offense to your comment. Just pointing out that the comment "never seemed very happy here" is one made out of ignorance or laziness or some combination of both.
Agree with Anti-Homer, KG was a strong defensive player and allowed coaches to match him from the 2 -4 positions. Much better than Kanter based on a website that I need to provide a link to.
As far as bad blood with Kanter, again I'm sure how valid that is. Kanter played the 5 along with SOM and Basketball. If Gates lost any playing time it was to Marshall.
He started the year strong from a 3 point shooting % but finished the year as the Invisible Man on offense - shoot only 30% from in BE conference play and 44% in non-conference play.
But he was still tied with JP for the 2nd best 3 point shooting % last year.
And his loss along with the graduating seniors, X has lost over 80% of their 3 point shooting from last year.
Definitely leaves a hole in the rotation.
I don't think he will make a NBA team next year but given how the league has increased the emphasis on 3 point shooting, if he shows he can make 3's at the pro level (overseas or the D League) he could make a NBA roster down the road. Plus he plays defense.
However, for some reason, he reminds me of JMart. Talented but biggest weakness to his game was from the neck up.
Who knows..maybe he just wants to go make some money and wasn't motivated to get a degree.
It's a FIDO for Coach Steele, IMO.
"Sports is a coffee break."
Al McGuire
"If someone offers to double your money, walk away. If he offers to make you 20 %, hear him out."
Al McGuire
X-Expert
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Re: Gates....who knows where he stands

Postby X-Expert » Mon May 07, 2018 8:56 pm

X-lucidity wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 10:16 am
Apologies for yet another post as we beat this horse to a slow & juvenile death - But I wanted to reply to the esteemed X-Expert. Quite frankly, you're missing my point. I did wish Kaiser well in his future endeavors. That was not tongue-in-cheek. I am thankful he chose X and contributed. As The Coach astutely mentions above, the lucrative overseas market adds a new dimension. As for my NY observations, I stand by them, but I also mentioned they were my opinions as a "silly youth b-ball coach". Body language can be very telling especially when it is of a consistent nature - again, my humble opinion. Bottom line is I was trying to address whether it is "HUGE LOSS" next year or not. Please take that aspect into the context of this dialogue. My point is given his nature and apparent lust for that next phase in life of professional B-ball, KG would not have been committed to the cause so to speak next season. Any decent group of talented D-1 players can trudge through a season and post a winning record and top 50 RPI. But to win meaningful games in March you need warriors. Another poster mentioned Mack blowing 2 of the last 3 games. Hey, that's a 'Bingo'. And spot on. We can dissect that on another thread if you'd like. My point here is that given all signs indicating his mind was wandering apparently late this last season and would only erode further were he to have come back next year - See ya, not a huge loss in retrospect...
Finally, for those that disagree, answer me this question. Why did our 2016-2017 squad, who was clearly an inferior group talent wise to this just concluded group, shock the world and reach the elite 8. While this past group fizzled against a very mediocre FSU squad? I contend it is because '16-17 had two additional seasoned "Warriors" in Malcolm Bernard at Rashid Gaston, who both knew their roles and woke up excited to strap on the uni and climb into the trenches with their brothers and fight every four minute war as if it were their last.
That is the mentality that wins in March. OK, I will now cease and desist.
Bottom line, as we now fade into the quiet dormant summer, all of us are completely bummed about how this past season that for so long was full of promise and glory - faded and landed with an unfortunate thud. All of us are dealing with it in our own way.
All good lucid-agree to disagree. X had a GREAT run last year but lets be honest that is what it was. They lost many games in a row and were squarely on the bubble and likely out had they not scored in their last possession vs Depaul in final regular season game. The Butler game was what put them in the tourney and then the run. But by no means did X or anyone play like Warriors in most of the second half of the conference season. Don't misunderstand, i was thrilled with how it turned out but like Illinois Chicago (who didn't even win their conference this year) they went on a run when they needed to and made the FF.

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