Creighton game thread 12/23

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muskieman
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Re: Creighton game thread 12/23

Postby muskieman » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:02 pm

skyhops wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:29 am
If Steele is continuing to evaluate based on analytics and stats that will bode well for Tandy and Stanley after CU game. MM, enough with the “hate” talk regarding critiquing a game. If that is the case their are many Carter haters out there.
the hate talk was about Carter. Some also have that same hate talk for Steele, Scruggs last year, Naji in fact anyone that isn't perfect which none of you are.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.
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Re: Creighton game thread 12/23

Postby AirJordan » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:17 pm

madness31 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:13 pm
Carter needs to limit his shooting. I doubt anyone would argue with that. He is still a valuable contributor in many ways and often makes the team better. Today, when the team is struggling to get buckets, and while Creighton also struggled, it makes more sense to go with another option.

Stanley did not appear to have a good shot from deep. 1 game so it is quite possible his range is better than what was displayed but he may not be the answer to Carter's shooting issues. Griffin seems to have no desire to shoot from outside so he might be a better option at various points in the game. Probably not at the end of the game when free throws or 3s are needed. In those situations I'd go with 4 guards.

I've been incredibly critical of players and coaches over the years. Never anything personal, just disagreements with decision making, style of play, etc. In my opinion constructive criticism is good. People are certainly right to voice concern over Carter's shooting as he simply takes too many shots when his percentages are so poor. Others are right to praise other aspects of Carter's game. He does need to rebound and protect the ball to warrant that praise. There is nothing in his stat line this game to warrant 30 minutes. Defense largely doesn't show in the stat line but I suspect Griffin's defense isn't that large a step back and his rebounding and shot blocking is superior.

Griffin and Tandy both should have gotten more minutes today. Both rebounded well and Tandy shot well from deep. It was generally just a bad game for both teams offensively. Tandy is not a great choice against aggressive defenses but Creighton is not that. Griffin has earned more minutes as he consistently rebounds and takes very few bad shots.
Sensible thoughts. Carter's contributions are positive and with so many shooters on this team, he can make his best input rebounding, passing, setting screens and playing defense (just not the defense he played on McEwen late game against Marquette). But, launching threes isn't Carter's strength so he should limit those attempts. That isn't criticism, it is just practical. I strongly agree that Carter's play did not warrant the floor time he was awarded. That's not hate for Carter. His play just didn't warrant the minutes.

Its too early to reach a conclusion about Stanley's role. He needs more minutes so he can get his legs under him and work on his timing. More P.T. for Ben likely means less for Carter. But, that doesn't mean Carter should be relegated to the bench.

Also, Freemantle played a crappy game and the earlier poster was correct in Freemantle alone is responsible for his performance yesterday. For starters, he needs to re-focus, hit the boards and stop the dumbass fouls.

This team is way ahead of where we thought they would be early in the season. But that doesn't mean we should declare victory. While it isn't wrong to observe that we're 8-1 and just lost a close game to a ranked team on the road, the game was winnable. We should have found a way to win it. the talent to do so is there.
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front court rotation

Postby whopper » Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:40 pm

Zach is really a finesse and hustle 4 and I love his game but there will be days that nothing is dropping and/or he is in foul trouble and we have to be ready for that. I think Carter/Griffin will have to play the front court player who is most likely to draw fouls to protect Zach. Miles "could" have a role, and from what I saw from Stanley he could play the 4 at times and can make his own offense which Carter/Griffin/Miles can't do and looks strong enough to hold his own in this position less game. We want Zach to play 30 min /game but that won't happen without some protection as he is too light and with Stanley we "may" have a double digit front court player who could get time when we need offense of Zach not in and Carter/Griffin even Miles at 5. Even with 28 min/game from Zach three are 52 more min to split in the 5/4 and it will be all hands on deck. Of course Nate and Scruggs could be at the 3 at times. It will be a coaching challenge but no need to ride a cold hand now
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Re: Creighton game thread 12/23

Postby Anti-Homer » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:01 pm

muskieman wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:37 pm
Anti-Homer wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:58 pm
muskieman wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:47 pm


every board needs a contrarian and we have a couple in sky and anti.
You miss the point Insanity. Carter's body of work on threes merits him ceasing them. Stats don't like, kind of like your incessant circular logic.

Mman, contrarian to whom? I'm a contrarian to a "leader" who told the nation to consume bleach as an antidote to Covid, and those who coddled violent protestors and social anarchists. Insightful objectivity and balance is a good thing.

On cue, another miss by someone on a three. Delirious probably loved that. BTW, did Tandy and Kunkel go to shower early?
ever heard of a hopeless cause...look in the mirror. We know where your insanity comes from. Carter was 0-5 but didn't force any Kunkel was 1-6 and Nate was 2-8. Two made from any of them one of them down the end of the game and we have a pile-up on the floor. Not much from Wilcher and we need Odom back. Three ball shooting didn't travel well for anyone.
Uh,

Comparing the right for Kunkel and Johnson to shoot threes vs Carter, whose body of work in 40+ games for X shows he’s in Goodin territory defies logic even for you . Even some of the biggest apologists for Carter in D & V mentioned that Carter shooting that much is bad for X.

He has trouble making ANY shot frankly, including labs. Despite this, AH remains a fan for his defense and rebounding, and frequent Carter apologist, but even I can’t put enough lipstick on the pig which is Carter shooting anything but a stick back in a close game.
Last edited by Anti-Homer on Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Creighton game thread 12/23

Postby Anti-Homer » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:08 pm

AirJordan wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:54 pm
madness31 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:24 pm

It is difficult to find minutes for everyone and almost impossible to know who will have the hot hand. At some point it makes sense to pick a preferred lineup and backup rotation and deviate only when things are not going as planned. find the weak link, sub in comparable players and see if they can perform at a higher level. Kunkel and Tandy are very similar skillsets. Kunk didn't have his shot falling today. Was almost the hero once again but wasn't. Tandy was shooting well beyond the shot that was blocked. He should have been in late in the game. Neither plays great defense. Kunkel probably plays with more effort on defense but effort without execution is a moral victory and should have little impact on game time decision making. It is a tie breaker, nothing more.

Shot selection in a game that went from hot to cold was questionable down the stretch. Hard to callout Johnson given his shooting % but I'd say he took 1 3 that I'd like to have back. Kunk definitely took a couple and 1 late that, from results say he should not have been shooting. He is a bit interesting as he has some wild misses but then goes off. Shooters tend to miss more closely than he does but there is no denying he is a shooter. Carter had to take that 3 in the corner but I certainly didn't want him shooting that shot.
One hopes, as we go deeper into the season, that Steele will get a better handle on rotations. This early I get it if Steele doesn't have a feel for who should play together. We have a bunch of shooters so its understandable, I think, that we have developed an insatiable lust for the three ball. But, we've got to get over it. We have decent Bigs so there ought to be some layup opportunities with effective interior passing. I didn't see much of that today.

A couple of questions for the board............

1. Anybody count "kills" today?
2. I like some of the things Carter does but I just don't feel good when he is in the game late. It isn't only about offensive production but Carter has been such a horrible shooter---he clanks free throws; he bricks short jump hooks (unlike Theo John) and I don't think he can make an open three to save his life. Still, what are our alternatives? Have we seen enough of Stanley to imagine he can take Carter's late game minutes or is Stanley a defensive liability?
Great post.

Creighton extended their man defense up high, and instead of attacking, X settled for way too many threes. Critical errors in coaching included pulling Tandy in the 1st half when he made two threes in three minutes, and not mixing in some zone even though Creighton was able to break them down on the dribble consistently.

It would be different if Creighton was hitting threes, but they obviously were not. I like Steele, but growing pains continues.
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Re: Creighton game thread 12/23

Postby Anti-Homer » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:24 pm

muskieman wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:50 pm
skyhops wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:26 pm
McDermott took Scruggs and Freemantel out of the game. Our bigs need to finish at the rim and not get the ball ten feet away from the hoop. Running a play for a three at the end of the game for Carter just shows how far Steele still has regarding end of game management.
Freemantle took Freemantle out of this game. When he plays smart and does not foul and he has more chances to score but everyone knows he is soft on D and has the ability to make fouls in dumb ways. You could name a dozen things today that made X lose but you focus on one guy that has been one of our better rebounders, especially toward the end of games, guards the rim better than any of our bigs, and is willing to do the little things (like make the good pass on cuts, boxing out). Less than a month ago you and your buddy were saying Paul was a handicap at the point
Paul is much better as a 2, which MMan fails to recognize is the position he primarily plays except for several possessions a game since one of our two PGs have been available simultaneously only two games all year.

One of the reasons Scruggs wasn’t as productive last year was b/c he had to play a lot of PG since Goodin was often ineffective, and thus didn’t catch the ball in areas where he could attack at all three levels as he does this year.

Getting the ball up high doesn’t mean he is a oh. X runs the same kind of isolation sets for him at times like UC ran for Cumberland at Uc very effectively. Cumberalnd wasn’t a PG either.Same applies to Nani last year. That’s like saying that since Paul often backs down his defender into the lane, he is a post player. Nah baby nah.
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Re: Creighton game thread 12/23

Postby Anti-Homer » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:28 pm

madness31 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:13 pm
Carter needs to limit his shooting. I doubt anyone would argue with that. He is still a valuable contributor in many ways and often makes the team better. Today, when the team is struggling to get buckets, and while Creighton also struggled, it makes more sense to go with another option.

Stanley did not appear to have a good shot from deep. 1 game so it is quite possible his range is better than what was displayed but he may not be the answer to Carter's shooting issues. Griffin seems to have no desire to shoot from outside so he might be a better option at various points in the game. Probably not at the end of the game when free throws or 3s are needed. In those situations I'd go with 4 guards.

I've been incredibly critical of players and coaches over the years. Never anything personal, just disagreements with decision making, style of play, etc. In my opinion constructive criticism is good. People are certainly right to voice concern over Carter's shooting as he simply takes too many shots when his percentages are so poor. Others are right to praise other aspects of Carter's game. He does need to rebound and protect the ball to warrant that praise. There is nothing in his stat line this game to warrant 30 minutes. Defense largely doesn't show in the stat line but I suspect Griffin's defense isn't that large a step back and his rebounding and shot blocking is superior.

Griffin and Tandy both should have gotten more minutes today. Both rebounded well and Tandy shot well from deep. It was generally just a bad game for both teams offensively. Tandy is not a great choice against aggressive defenses but Creighton is not that. Griffin has earned more minutes as he consistently rebounds and takes very few bad shots.
Creighton didn’t employ an aggressive defense? They fooled me. They seemed to attack up high daring X to drive, and played good isolation and help D.

X settled for too many treys, and it ain’t no coincidence Carter had a lot of open looks from 3. See Goodin, 2019, EVERY GAME.
Last edited by Anti-Homer on Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Creighton game thread 12/23

Postby Anti-Homer » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:56 pm

X and Steele are exceeding expectations. I’d take 8-1 at this point in the season at the start. X losing to a very good Creighton team and home was encouraging and even beneficial (KPI improved) , and I think X is a Top 25 team.

X hasn’t reached their ceiling as I think Stanley will only get better, and same with the freshmen. Objective criticism and being a diehard X supporter aren’t mutually exclusive.

Nice! I hit my minimum moderator post quota for the week.
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Re: Creighton game thread 12/23

Postby skyhops » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:10 am

Once again AH is pretty much spot on. Scruggs does play point at times but mainly the two, which is his best position especially with Odom. Free did not play well, but unlike Carter he has carried the team earlier this year. Watching the last game again Stanley deserves some of Carter’s minutes. We will have cold shooting nights which makes it important to take good shots and hit easy inside shots. Hopefully Steele and Tandy can get on same page, so we don’t see him in the transfer portal at year end.
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Re: Creighton game thread 12/23

Postby olsingledigit » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:25 pm

Creighton denied us the middle very well and forced us into outside shots. Odom missing had a big impact IMO. I believe he would have opened up the middle and given Paul some better chances as well as creating drives for himself. We will get them at home;
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