X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

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X-lucidity
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Re: X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

Postby X-lucidity » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:11 am

We are thrilled with the win. This was a huge game given the layoff, the missed games and the fact that right now there are about 25 to 30 teams vying to escape this nondescript realm of mediocrity and rise up to NCAA tourney prominence. We looked good today in spurts but also flashed long concerning scoring droughts and, more telling, a very pathetic D effort in the 2nd half. We simply cannot seem to stop dribble drive penetration. I was screaming for Steele to mix in a zone look or two with about 8 min left just to see if it could interrupt Butler’s O rhythm. Thankfully, as previously mentioned, X held a tremendous talent disparity. The missed FT’s by our bigs is almost amusing at this point. You cross your fingers that they maybe can make one out of two. Yes, Griffin deserves and needs to be getting 11-13 min a game. Tandy, well today did not help. Steele gave him some run but less than stellar D and yet another: “ I haven’t shot in awhile so even though I am not open- it’s my turn darn it”
But looking forward, we got a much needed road kill after a long frustrating layoff. Scruggs was special. Nate is Nate, a godsend. Kunkel has proven to be a worthy starter and Our Frosh stud PG looks better each game. ( his shots will start falling) missing Colby, who I did not even have a clue was not able to play, was a crucial absence. So all in all, more to be positive about than to lament. Such a disjointed season- a win, any league win, is to be celebrated.
Anti-Homer
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Re: X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

Postby Anti-Homer » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:20 am

XavierBob wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:27 pm
You know we all want Tandy to succeed, but, I’m sorry right now I don’t know how you give him much run. He doesn’t protect or value the ball, plays little to no defense. Travis has to try to win games not stroke egos. The Muskies are getting more out of Kunkel and I’m surprised that I just typed that. Now on the Griffin front I’m with you he rebounds plays good D and is deserving of more time. Again I don’t think a player’s ego (Fremantle), needs a boost either. Just my two cents.
Agree with a lot of your observations, but Steele again praised Tandy this week, yet he seems to be on a 3 minute limit regardless, and less with one forced shot. If everyone like Tandy was pulled after a bad shot and rode the pine the rest of the way, we'd lose Carter and Free by the 17 minute mark of the first every game. Kunkel should definitely get more minutes, but as much as I like Odom, he forced several bad shots, missed on a switch on defense, yet played seemingly 20 minutes. Free was pretty horrid today oter than his 10 boards. I'd be fine wit his man(mis)agement of both Tandy and Griffin if he had shown the ability to manage personnel in his previous two years, and was consistent with his measuring stick. I don't think either of the latter has been demonstrated. I'm glad he can recruit, because talent like beauty helps cover a lot of deficits.
Anti-Homer
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Re: X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

Postby Anti-Homer » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:22 am

Anti-Homer wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:20 am
XavierBob wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:27 pm
You know we all want Tandy to succeed, but, I’m sorry right now I don’t know how you give him much run. He doesn’t protect or value the ball, plays little to no defense. Travis has to try to win games not stroke egos. The Muskies are getting more out of Kunkel and I’m surprised that I just typed that. Now on the Griffin front I’m with you he rebounds plays good D and is deserving of more time. Again I don’t think a player’s ego (Fremantle), needs a boost either. Just my two cents.
Agree with a lot of your observations, but Steele again praised Tandy this week, yet he seems to be on a 3 minute limit regardless, and less with one forced shot. If everyone like Tandy was pulled after a bad shot and rode the pine the rest of the way, we'd lose Carter and Free by the 17 minute mark of the first every game. Kunkel should definitely get more minutes, but as much as I like Odom, he forced several bad shots, missed on a switch on defense, yet played seemingly 20 minutes. Free was pretty horrid today oter than his 10 boards. I'd be fine wit his man(mis)agement of both Tandy and Griffin if he had shown the ability to manage personnel in his previous two years, and was consistent with his measuring stick. I don't think either of the latter has been demonstrated. I'm glad he can recruit, because talented players mask a lot of deficits. No where to hide the previous two years.
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Re: X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

Postby madness31 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:36 am

Biggest surprise today was Johnson forcing his final 2 3 pointers. I absolutely love Johnson's game, primarily because he takes what the defense gives him and shoots lights out. Maybe going 4 for 4 and being the 3rd best 3 point shooter in the country went to his head, but those were bad decisions. He was obviously still a huge part of the win but I'd like to see him go back to playing smart basketball.

Scruggs was again a man amongst boys. He should be drafted. His shot is much improved from prior years even though his percentage was solid the past couple years. Decision making is generally great but has lapses from time to time.

Kunkel had a great game. I was undecided about him as he has had great moments but also had plenty of questionable moments. Today may have won me over but I need to see follow through.

I completely disagree that Odom forced the action. He was off today but I expect him to make those shots as they are within his skillset. He didn't want to take the 3 but it was late in the clock and it was a good shot. I expect he will develop range before leaving X.

I'm not sure Free is a net positive. He has struggled and his first 2 3s were horrendous. The form looked as though he didn't have the strength to shoot that far. Out of 5 3s, 1 was an acceptable shot. He did rebound well but Griffin is a rebounding machine so if you replace Free with Griffin, those boards are almost certainly transferred to BG. I have no confidence in Free on the defensive or offensive end against good post players.

As said by other posters, Griffin is X's best post player this year. It is absolutely inexcusable that he does not get more minutes.

Coach is not doing this team justice. This team is capable of making a run in the tourney but I have no confidence it will happen because Steele has not shown the ability to recognize what is happening on the court. When Free struggles offensively, he has to be pulled unless BG is in foul trouble. I have high hopes for Odom and generally believed his decision making was sound but he was struggling. Leaving Odom and Free in cost X a 20 point lead. The bench is deep and others were playing at a high level, there was no reason to keep them in.
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Re: X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

Postby AirJordan » Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:33 am

madness31 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:36 am

Coach is not doing this team justice. This team is capable of making a run in the tourney but I have no confidence it will happen because Steele has not shown the ability to recognize what is happening on the court. When Free struggles offensively, he has to be pulled unless BG is in foul trouble. I have high hopes for Odom and generally believed his decision making was sound but he was struggling. Leaving Odom and Free in cost X a 20 point lead. The bench is deep and others were playing at a high level, there was no reason to keep them in.
After sleeping on it, I'm grateful our boys won, especially given the long layoff. But, agree with above and with the comments of A.H. regarding player management. I think A.H. is especially on point with his criticism of Steele for failing to rein in poor decision making (and noting that occurred last year as well). That is basic coaching.

I do think Odom played better than some of you other posters. He certainly struggled making shots. And, yes, he is not the guy to be shooting threes (along with Carter + Free). But, an earlier comment criticized our offensive play for lack of ball penetration. And, that lack of penetration has been a staple of Steele's tenure. Odom and Scruggs seem to be our only players competent of taking the ball deep inside. I love that Odom challenges the other teams Bigs as he did, at times, yesterday. He just didn't make the shots.

We have a deep bench this year. Finally! We don't need to tolerate any player holding us hostage with selfish or stupid play. Steele did a poor job of using his players last night against a mediocre Butler team. Had we blown that twenty point lead and turned the game into a loss, that would have been a really bad loss and a difficult one from which to recover.

Congratulations on the "W" last night. I remind myself that our conference and overall records are far ahead of last year. We won two conference games on last second shots and barely beat a lousy team last night. Steele's legacy at present (which I hope he turns around) is to not be able to beat good teams in conference. This team should change that so I'm rooting for him. Maybe more consistent and predictable games we actually get to play, will be the medicine we need.
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Re: X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

Postby whopper » Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:31 am

to compare Freemantle to Griffen....Karl Malone had poor offensive rebounding numbers as he was always posting with a man behind him and Rodman great as he did not want ball. I am not sure Griffen could not get a couple of put backs to make up for the loss of Freemantle(who does draw double teams and opens others). Also a more physical defended..some of Nze's baskets last night were sheer capitulation. Free is not a 5 especially on defense.Griffin deserves 15 min a game. I feel for Tandy, he is like Wally Pipp to Kunkel, Odom, Wilshire's Lou Gehrig(not to mention Nate Johnson who is like a more fundamentally sound Tandy). He has to keep working and get self in position to contribute or transfer(which would make me sad). I have always said that the worst player in NBA makes 1 mill and the best in the GLeague makes 100k(more if called up) yet they are the same skill level. Miles should be able to help a little..many teams have this young raw center contributing a bit.
skyhops
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Re: X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

Postby skyhops » Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:58 am

Agree with your assessment of Free vs Griffin. Freemantel does rotate on the defensive end and plays like he doesn't want to pick up any fouls. Griffin deserves some of his minutes. Carter at least attempts to play defense although he is the worst offensive big in BE. Madness made a good point regarding Johnson as far as two poor shots at the end of game especially jacking up a three when we had numbers. Those type of plays will hurt against good teams, however he has been really good this year. I'm sure that Butler fans can't be happy with Jordan especially the recruiting.
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muskieman
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Re: X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

Postby muskieman » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:42 pm

skyhops wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:58 am
Agree with your assessment of Free vs Griffin. Freemantel does rotate on the defensive end and plays like he doesn't want to pick up any fouls. Griffin deserves some of his minutes. Carter at least attempts to play defense although he is the worst offensive big in BE. Madness made a good point regarding Johnson as far as two poor shots at the end of game especially jacking up a three when we had numbers. Those type of plays will hurt against good teams, however he has been really good this year. I'm sure that Butler fans can't be happy with Jordan especially the recruiting.
to be fair every time Free gets physical they call him even for phantom touches. On the O side, he has had his problems but like a streak shooter, you want them to not stop shooting because he can get hot change the game. At Butler, he was part of the five out D and I think he thought he just had to shoot from the outside or was disappointed and started to hang his head. I saw him shaking his head at times and he needs to get that forgetfulness shooters need to have at times. I am sure that X can not afford games like this against the Nova, Seton Hall, UConn, Creighton, and Providence teams and expect a W. The good point a couple of announcers made that night in other games, like the Creighton's game, that the mark of a good team was having a bad night and still winning. Rather have a teaching moment in a win any day. It is what they do with the experience which will decide the seasoon.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.
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Re: X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

Postby longliveskip » Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:39 am

Anti-Homer wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:20 am
XavierBob wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:27 pm
You know we all want Tandy to succeed, but, I’m sorry right now I don’t know how you give him much run. He doesn’t protect or value the ball, plays little to no defense. Travis has to try to win games not stroke egos. The Muskies are getting more out of Kunkel and I’m surprised that I just typed that. Now on the Griffin front I’m with you he rebounds plays good D and is deserving of more time. Again I don’t think a player’s ego (Fremantle), needs a boost either. Just my two cents.
Agree with a lot of your observations, but Steele again praised Tandy this week, yet he seems to be on a 3 minute limit regardless, and less with one forced shot. If everyone like Tandy was pulled after a bad shot and rode the pine the rest of the way, we'd lose Carter and Free by the 17 minute mark of the first every game. Kunkel should definitely get more minutes, but as much as I like Odom, he forced several bad shots, missed on a switch on defense, yet played seemingly 20 minutes. Free was pretty horrid today oter than his 10 boards. I'd be fine wit his man(mis)agement of both Tandy and Griffin if he had shown the ability to manage personnel in his previous two years, and was consistent with his measuring stick. I don't think either of the latter has been demonstrated. I'm glad he can recruit, because talent like beauty helps cover a lot of deficits.
you put WAY too much stock into TRYING to read between the lines in what Steele says in his pressers. just because he SAYS a guy has been practicing better/well, etc doesn't necessarily mean that's going to equate to minutes in the next game. if all the guys who he feels are better than them are ALSO practicing hard and playing well, guess what? that dude doesn't get in. it has ZERO to do with mismanaging. if you've ever coached, then you understand that some guys have shorter leashes than others, based on what they can produce, what they do in practice, etc. it's the nature of competitive sports.

until Tandy/Griffin/Miles are more CONSISTENT with it ALL the time, they're not gonna see the floor as much. one week of "he's really practiced better/well this week" isn't going to bench the guys who consistently get it done for the team.
skyhops
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Re: X vs Butler Game thread 1/30/2021

Postby skyhops » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:27 am

I'm not sure I would call Zach's play consistent especially in BE play where his numbers are not even close to what he has done against no conference play. Griffen does deserve more PT.

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