I remember it well

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muskieman
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I remember it well

Postby muskieman » Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:08 pm

The year was 2003, and the season started out with a win over mighty Coppin State and preceded with wins over equally powerful Mercer and Oakland, but a trip to the MAC and Big Ten brought two Ls from Ball State and Indiana. We thought the ship had righted when we beat Miami, but the SEC Mississippi State halted the one-game victory. A Sun Belt win and a loss to Iowa State started the murmurs of how the coach might not be the guy we need to succeed, but a 4 game win streak quieted those fears for a while, but two straight losses and five out of the next six sent the negative nabobs wild. HOW could a Xavier coach be 10 and 9? How dare a coach be 10-9 at XAVIER shouted the coach haters, fire the bastard, better yet string him up. The cry was so loud a fan came down from his seat in the middle of a game to yell at the coach and tell him to resign and go back to that school in Indy. He yelled that the coach was lousy and couldn’t coach, he had lousy players, and that the coach had disgraced the school with a record of 10-9 at the end of January. His language was interspersed with a few choice words we can not mention because there are children present. We heard Boos ring out after one home loss and a player from Africa looked at the crowd in pain and disbelief that his fans had turned on the team. All we heard from all the “knowledgeable” fans was the point guard dribbled the ball too much. The forward is too short and soft, that the talented Senior player from Africa was not carrying the team and that the bench players had little to offer. The big guy was a transfer, and many doubted his ability and smarts because “we were smarter” than that coach from a small school in Indy. The season was over, the sky was falling, and the end days were near, BUT something happened next… the muskies beat their archrival the Cincinnati Bearcats, then Fordham, Richmond, UMass, LaSalle, and yes, even that school to the North and LaSalle for a second time. That was a seven-game win streak bu.. but the stumble against Duquesne at Cintas made some of the ardent negative fans doubt… right here on this board. Even with two more wins, they argued, X had to win the A-10 tournament to have any chance at getting into the NCAA tournament because X only had 19 wins and those 10 TERRIBLE losses, and they had to do that; in that horrid city to the North with that team! Oh mon Dieu, que faire? Well, they won the first game, but that was against a team as bad as X was, but now they then had to play THE TEAM of the YEAR…unbeaten, and a sure #1 seed in the NCAA; this team was loaded, two future NBAers, to boot, and we had those lousy recruits from that lousy coach that lost 10 games, ten games! Well, the game started out looking good for X because X was as hot as a firecracker. Their D was holding “THAT TEAM” down nicely. Suddenly it turned into a blowout…those super players that had been unbeaten world beaters looked human. X’s lousy players were the ones that looked unbeatable. When the final horn went off, those same lousy players with their lousy coach had pulled off the upset of the century, for X, 87-67, and X had 21 wins. Who would have tunk it! Next up was the first president of the United States' team, which X polished off by over 20 points, but now we had to play the nemesis up North, in their own gym, you know the one, with the seats that made it hard to see if you were back a few rows because of the angle of the rows and fans that had mouths on them that made sailors blush. Fans screamed at players to go and do something anatomically impossible, and to the X fans, something even worse was in store for them before, during, and after the game, but when X prevailed and won it all, the whole dang A-10 tournament those fans that had yelled at the coach in the Cintas to go and quite could not be found at the victory celebration. X had won, and so now they had the automatic bid and were off to the NCAA and sunny Orlando to play the Cardinals of Louisville. X beat UofL, and their hall of fame coach, by ten points. Then X had to play a team that had beaten X by 12 points; that’s double digits to you basketball fans. Mississippi State had big men that looked like giants. At the same time, X had that guard that dribbled the ball too much and that forward that was too small, and some stringy forward that shot threes but could not mix it up like the #8 Mississippi State boys could, or so some fans thought. You guessed it, X won and won by 15 to boot, and so X was feeling pretty good about this time going into Atlanta’s Georgia Doom to play Texas. Ah, you remember Texas. They had beaten Xavier 102 to 89 in Dallas to end X's run at the elite eight when X had a great coach called Pete and great players like Tyrone Hill, Strong, Walker, Williams, legends, and basketball gods to the Xavier faithful, even the negative ones. BUT surprise, surprise X won and was off to the elite eight against Duke…DUKE and coach K! DUKE and JJ Reddick,! DUKE and Chris Duhon! DUKE and Lou Deng! The game was tight, and X looked like they might just win against DUKE, but strange things happen when you play DUKE, and this game was no exception. In a matter of seconds toward the end of the game with X up, suddenly our starting big guy in a matter of seconds had two fouls called on him. Agast, you say, so with that his 16 points and 10 rebounds against guys like Sheldon Williams, you know that guy they called the Landlord because of his aggressive style of play who would later have his jersey retired at Duke and who was drafted 5th in the NBA Draft by the Atlanta Hawks, and #7 in the NBA draft Lou Deng, the same player who the negative fans thought was too slow, too dumb, and not talented enough but had been one of the game stars.was on the bench, never to see action for X again. The final score was still close 3 points, and so the X crowd went away in tears with the hope of a final four dashed. SO, where were those negative nabobs now? They were ones muttering and grousing that the coach should have taken Anthony out sooner even though he didn’t have any time to do that. SO a coach will always have some fans who think he is lousy and his players either soft or lazy when they lose a game. The “fan” in their perfect Monday morning seat will undoubtedly think they know when that coach makes a bad call/s or of imperfect execution by one or more player, they probably think the botched play was on purpose or because the coach or the player doesn’t know the game as they do!
That same fan/s in a fit of drinking will make a fool of himself because he knows what to do even though he never sat in the hot seat, never spent a lick of time in practice with the players, and never got to know the coach or the players. That average fan doesn’t understand that while the ball is round with a diameter of 9.5 and the basket is circular 18 inches in diameter, putting the into that basket is not as easy as it looks. Even NBA professional teams shoot less than 50% on average with a range between 43-48%; as a comparison, the team that went to the elite-eight shot 44.1%, while this year the team is shooting 47.3%
Those 2003 players, who many fans thought were not talented enough though most of the season, took the motto “US against the world” succeeded even though many of their fans had given up too early on them.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.
X-lucidity
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Re: I remember it well

Postby X-lucidity » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:08 pm

Nice MM, I recall those events well. But that was 17+ years ago. I can walk and chew gum, meaning, I can love my team and root hard yet exercise my right of analysis and constructive criticism. This season is odd and compares to nothing ever before due to COVID. We all know that. Steele was dealt a huge blow with now three interruptions and massive losses of practice. That said, player rotations and in-game adjustments, or lack thereof, is something we can discuss. Why else have this site? I believe all of us that contribute are adult enough to know we are not in that "hot seat" nor do we see what transpires in-between games or at practices. So none of us have the proven "right answers", as only time will tell that. But our collective comments and suggestions can at times have merit. That's the beauty of sports. Head coaches know this when they sign up and agree to that paycheck. Comes with the territory. I have the utmost respect for our entire coaching staff and fully support, love and respect all our young men in blue & white that take the floor. Sharing thoughts and critiques on this board is enjoyable to me. I learn quite a bit at times and am able to rethink some of my takes at times by hearing what others are thinking. This is why we love this $hi#. This is why we are here, on this site, rather than some silly political blog site. So hell yes, let's always remember '03, and "the run". However, the reason we do and will remember that is because those shocking late season turnarounds are indeed rare. Meaning, that usually, a leopard cannot change his spots 3/4's into the campaign.
Tonight will go a long way for me to see whether UConn was a blip or a trend. Can't wait to watch, then read my fellow brother's feed back, and possibly even chime in myself. Lets go X....!
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muskieman
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Re: I remember it well

Postby muskieman » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:03 pm

I agree and accept we all have opinions and that people can disagree with my opinion as well as another poster. What gets me is the fan that has that knee-***** comment that is more hateful than constructive. That year there were many hateful and I only bring it up because I am beginning to see that happening again this year. I am not talking about the emotion that says "dammit (Players name) for taking(What we think) is an ill-advised three. I know we all have an opinion about how we should win, who should play, and how a player should be treated but some of the actions of our fans should also be able to be critiqued when it crosses the line, patently false or just without thinking about why something might have happened, especially when it colors all their opinions. This is more than just a rant board. Some ranting is good, always ranting not so good. Some other sites might need the ranting to draw posters that is their prerogative. I like differing opinions and don't mind mixing it up with some of the posters but all schools have that group that only sees the negative and lets their personal opinion of a coach or player get the best of them and all their comments. I am sure if you remember 2003 you might remember how mean spirited the crowd was but what I remember most about it was the look on Sato's face when he was standing at center court right in front of me and the crowd started booing the team because a game didn't go their way. He didn't deserve it and neither did the team. It is easy for any fandom to fall into despair and become ugly. I am glad you responded and gave your opinion.

Someone needs to be the canary in the coal mine.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.
skyhops
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Re: I remember it well

Postby skyhops » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:34 pm

Maybe the start of the run will begin on Sunday because we are overmatched today and not playing any defense.
madness31
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Re: I remember it well

Postby madness31 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:37 am

That team was a great team that played below their potential for too long. It is also worth noting that the 2 fouls within seconds were both questionable calls.

Missing shots is annoying but that is not the cause of most losses. Lack of defense is a reason to get upset. Defense is about knowledge and effort. When you give up layups, dunks and wide open 3 point shots, it is a serious problem.
basket
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Re: I remember it well

Postby basket » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:25 am

muskieman wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:08 pm
The year was 2003, and the season started out with a win over mighty Coppin State and preceded with wins over equally powerful Mercer and Oakland, but a trip to the MAC and Big Ten brought two Ls from Ball State and Indiana. We thought the ship had righted when we beat Miami, but the SEC Mississippi State halted the one-game victory. A Sun Belt win and a loss to Iowa State started the murmurs of how the coach might not be the guy we need to succeed, but a 4 game win streak quieted those fears for a while, but two straight losses and five out of the next six sent the negative nabobs wild. HOW could a Xavier coach be 10 and 9? How dare a coach be 10-9 at XAVIER shouted the coach haters, fire the bastard, better yet string him up. The cry was so loud a fan came down from his seat in the middle of a game to yell at the coach and tell him to resign and go back to that school in Indy. He yelled that the coach was lousy and couldn’t coach, he had lousy players, and that the coach had disgraced the school with a record of 10-9 at the end of January. His language was interspersed with a few choice words we can not mention because there are children present. We heard Boos ring out after one home loss and a player from Africa looked at the crowd in pain and disbelief that his fans had turned on the team. All we heard from all the “knowledgeable” fans was the point guard dribbled the ball too much. The forward is too short and soft, that the talented Senior player from Africa was not carrying the team and that the bench players had little to offer. The big guy was a transfer, and many doubted his ability and smarts because “we were smarter” than that coach from a small school in Indy. The season was over, the sky was falling, and the end days were near, BUT something happened next… the muskies beat their archrival the Cincinnati Bearcats, then Fordham, Richmond, UMass, LaSalle, and yes, even that school to the North and LaSalle for a second time. That was a seven-game win streak bu.. but the stumble against Duquesne at Cintas made some of the ardent negative fans doubt… right here on this board. Even with two more wins, they argued, X had to win the A-10 tournament to have any chance at getting into the NCAA tournament because X only had 19 wins and those 10 TERRIBLE losses, and they had to do that; in that horrid city to the North with that team! Oh mon Dieu, que faire? Well, they won the first game, but that was against a team as bad as X was, but now they then had to play THE TEAM of the YEAR…unbeaten, and a sure #1 seed in the NCAA; this team was loaded, two future NBAers, to boot, and we had those lousy recruits from that lousy coach that lost 10 games, ten games! Well, the game started out looking good for X because X was as hot as a firecracker. Their D was holding “THAT TEAM” down nicely. Suddenly it turned into a blowout…those super players that had been unbeaten world beaters looked human. X’s lousy players were the ones that looked unbeatable. When the final horn went off, those same lousy players with their lousy coach had pulled off the upset of the century, for X, 87-67, and X had 21 wins. Who would have tunk it! Next up was the first president of the United States' team, which X polished off by over 20 points, but now we had to play the nemesis up North, in their own gym, you know the one, with the seats that made it hard to see if you were back a few rows because of the angle of the rows and fans that had mouths on them that made sailors blush. Fans screamed at players to go and do something anatomically impossible, and to the X fans, something even worse was in store for them before, during, and after the game, but when X prevailed and won it all, the whole dang A-10 tournament those fans that had yelled at the coach in the Cintas to go and quite could not be found at the victory celebration. X had won, and so now they had the automatic bid and were off to the NCAA and sunny Orlando to play the Cardinals of Louisville. X beat UofL, and their hall of fame coach, by ten points. Then X had to play a team that had beaten X by 12 points; that’s double digits to you basketball fans. Mississippi State had big men that looked like giants. At the same time, X had that guard that dribbled the ball too much and that forward that was too small, and some stringy forward that shot threes but could not mix it up like the #8 Mississippi State boys could, or so some fans thought. You guessed it, X won and won by 15 to boot, and so X was feeling pretty good about this time going into Atlanta’s Georgia Doom to play Texas. Ah, you remember Texas. They had beaten Xavier 102 to 89 in Dallas to end X's run at the elite eight when X had a great coach called Pete and great players like Tyrone Hill, Strong, Walker, Williams, legends, and basketball gods to the Xavier faithful, even the negative ones. BUT surprise, surprise X won and was off to the elite eight against Duke…DUKE and coach K! DUKE and JJ Reddick,! DUKE and Chris Duhon! DUKE and Lou Deng! The game was tight, and X looked like they might just win against DUKE, but strange things happen when you play DUKE, and this game was no exception. In a matter of seconds toward the end of the game with X up, suddenly our starting big guy in a matter of seconds had two fouls called on him. Agast, you say, so with that his 16 points and 10 rebounds against guys like Sheldon Williams, you know that guy they called the Landlord because of his aggressive style of play who would later have his jersey retired at Duke and who was drafted 5th in the NBA Draft by the Atlanta Hawks, and #7 in the NBA draft Lou Deng, the same player who the negative fans thought was too slow, too dumb, and not talented enough but had been one of the game stars.was on the bench, never to see action for X again. The final score was still close 3 points, and so the X crowd went away in tears with the hope of a final four dashed. SO, where were those negative nabobs now? They were ones muttering and grousing that the coach should have taken Anthony out sooner even though he didn’t have any time to do that. SO a coach will always have some fans who think he is lousy and his players either soft or lazy when they lose a game. The “fan” in their perfect Monday morning seat will undoubtedly think they know when that coach makes a bad call/s or of imperfect execution by one or more player, they probably think the botched play was on purpose or because the coach or the player doesn’t know the game as they do!
That same fan/s in a fit of drinking will make a fool of himself because he knows what to do even though he never sat in the hot seat, never spent a lick of time in practice with the players, and never got to know the coach or the players. That average fan doesn’t understand that while the ball is round with a diameter of 9.5 and the basket is circular 18 inches in diameter, putting the into that basket is not as easy as it looks. Even NBA professional teams shoot less than 50% on average with a range between 43-48%; as a comparison, the team that went to the elite-eight shot 44.1%, while this year the team is shooting 47.3%
Those 2003 players, who many fans thought were not talented enough though most of the season, took the motto “US against the world” succeeded even though many of their fans had given up too early on them.
A FAN should NEVER "go down" and "boo" or yell at a coach mid game! A fan should NEVER go down and yell at a college or younger player for how bad they THINK a player is! ALL of this, if true, as I wasn't there, is just WRONG! If I or you or anyone wants to say or think that the coach isnt good OR the players arent playing to their potential so be it. But what happened in 2003 just was NOT right!
Alpalpa
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Re: I remember it well

Postby Alpalpa » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:21 am

I’ve been going to games since my then-neighbor Steve Thomas used to drive his brother Mark and me to games. It’s been a lot of years through a lot of games and coaches. Met quite a few of them from that point and through my years as co-founder of Horan Securities (now Horan Wealth Management) until my retirement a few years back. XU didn’t hire well-seasoned head coaches. They were and are men of talent, promise and character...developed from there in the Xavier tradition.
EVERYONE OF THEM BECAME GREAT FROM O-J-T! And as a former business owner, I guarantee you can learn the most from the toughest times.
I enjoy this board a great deal (just as I will the blowback from this post), but I must say that as with most things in life “perfection is not required”, and it serves to make the better years the best. Impatience certainly plays it’s part in all that...and this IS, after all, the ultimate year for impatience.
However, we have a great core who doesn’t get to practice and play their way to cohesiveness, a very young head coach with an amazing upside, and a year when none of them has been able to practice consistently, play or develope a rhythm.
As I sit here with a copy of “THE RUN” DVD ready to hit play, I would like to remind folks that the unexpected years which don’t quite turn out as you expect, lead to years like THE RUN. Years which you can relive and love reliving.
So, give it a rest...give it some time...know that great things are coming and your patience and support can actually help.

AND, if you REALLY feel the need to be over-the-top impatient, turn your eyes to Clifton where there is a HUGE university leaking players like a cheap pool, in a so-so mid major league that may get only 1 bid to the dance. I imagine that’s just about all they’re doing over there.
Last edited by Alpalpa on Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
edgecliff hall
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Re: I remember it well

Postby edgecliff hall » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:28 pm

Hello Alpalpa, I bet our time at X matches up pretty well. Please explain what O J T stands for.
All Best, Edgecliff Hall.
Alpalpa
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Re: I remember it well

Postby Alpalpa » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:55 pm

On the Job Training. I know it’s missing an initial, but it’s an old business term.
edgecliff hall
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Re: I remember it well

Postby edgecliff hall » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:41 pm

O J T huh? I got a lot of that in the Army.

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