St Johns game thread

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skyhops
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby skyhops » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:45 pm

When Griff was healthy he hardly ever played what is going to change now?
Anti-Homer
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby Anti-Homer » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:53 pm

If anyone needs a break from the brand of bball X is playing, may I suggest?

Great books on Amazon:

THE GHOSTS OF ANTIETAM, Civil War novel.
THE PERFECT GAME: Jim Naismith Invents Basketball
HOW TO WRITE AN IRISH PLAY

Good movies include:
SCALPEL, on Amazon Prime and Blu-Ray Disc.
Sally is a corker.

You won't be sorry. All very entertaining.
jct1941
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby jct1941 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:51 am

First of all I agree the defense was terrible and shooting 40 three point was way too many. But, when you look at the box score it shows that 24 of the 40 three point were taken by three players. Johnson shoots about 50% from three, Scruggs shots 36% and Kunkel shots 28%. In that same order Johnson was 2-11, Scruggs was 1 for 6, and Kunkel was 1 for 9.thats 4 for 24. At least are (supposely) our best shooters were taking those shots were taking the most three pointers. And those were not contested shots. There was a game early in the season when XU took 32 three pointers with the HUGE difference being that XU made 19 of them. All I am saying that if the players we count on were just some what close to their numbers it would have a different outcome even with the BAD defense. And St Johns is HOT. Let us not forget they BEAT Nova by 11 points. XU is 11 and 4 so lets just see how the rest of the season goes. Go Xavier!
whopper
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby whopper » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:49 am

the glory days are long gone when either Tre would break open a game, or Karem would work magic(I remember that against St Johns w/Tariq Owens befuddled) or Naj/Tyrique would bully them at the end. We were on the receiving end of it and what I remember about the dunks (to that Moore who could fly) is no stopping penetration, a kind of weak challenge and an easy undeflected alley oop. That little stretch of 6-8 points can't happen in any game much less a road game against a hot team. Against UConn and St Johns there were times in the last 2 min when technically it was a 4 or 6 pt game but I never felt that we had a chance as the other team looked so confident that they could score. Butler beat St Johns by the way..so lets hope we can turn it around. We did not lose any games this year that we should have won, but won 3 that we easily could have lost(Toledo , PC, Marq) so their really can't be any complaints
madness31
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby madness31 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:08 am

First, Mack was never a good coach. He went from bad to serviceable. Winning games does not make someone a good coach just as losing games does not make someone a bad coach. Winning games when you have interior talent makes you lucky if rare and good if frequent. Losing games you should win does the opposite. Mack was better known for losing games he should win than winning games he should lose. He underperformed almost every year he coached.

Odom was playing with confidence and showing a ton of potential before the first covid break. Since then, he is rarely seeing the court. He is a true PG and is desperately needed for future years. Scruggs is not a PG but he is distributing the ball very well.

Free and Carter should officially never shoot a 3 unless there is fewer than 5 seconds on the shot or game clock. Carter is at least aware of his struggles and limits his takes but Free is cluless and continues to hurt the team. When he hits a 3, it is even worse as he takes 5 more thinking he is suddenly a shooter. It is time for a captain to step up and put an end to the madness. Play without a center if necessary but do not let him shoot 3s. Tie him to his dorm bed or whatever is necessary but this has to stop.

Kunkel appears to either be a streak shooter or a hot and cold shooter. If he is a streak shooter, it is hard to put a lid on his shots but his % is making me think something needs to happen. If he is a guy that either has it or doesn't then he should be shelved after a few misses as he will only hurt the team from that point forward. He has had games where his shots were not even close and other games where he probably didn't even look at the rim before draining shots. When I'm locked in, I can drain shots while staring a defender in the eyes. Some games I just don't have it and simply play D and find shots for teammates. This is not all on Travis, players need to understand their skillset. They need to make smart decisions. Travis however needs to help them understand how they can best help the team. I'm not seeing that. Scruggs and Odom can make Carter, Free and other bigs seem like gods if they make the right plays.

Johnson did not shoot well but he generally took good shots. Probably a questionable shot or 2 but nothing glaring like the other game and he has earned the right to take marginally acceptable shots.
longliveskip
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby longliveskip » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:04 am

madness31 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:08 am
First, Mack was never a good coach. He went from bad to serviceable. Winning games does not make someone a good coach just as losing games does not make someone a bad coach. Winning games when you have interior talent makes you lucky if rare and good if frequent. Losing games you should win does the opposite. Mack was better known for losing games he should win than winning games he should lose. He underperformed almost every year he coached.

Odom was playing with confidence and showing a ton of potential before the first covid break. Since then, he is rarely seeing the court. He is a true PG and is desperately needed for future years. Scruggs is not a PG but he is distributing the ball very well.

Free and Carter should officially never shoot a 3 unless there is fewer than 5 seconds on the shot or game clock. Carter is at least aware of his struggles and limits his takes but Free is cluless and continues to hurt the team. When he hits a 3, it is even worse as he takes 5 more thinking he is suddenly a shooter. It is time for a captain to step up and put an end to the madness. Play without a center if necessary but do not let him shoot 3s. Tie him to his dorm bed or whatever is necessary but this has to stop.

Kunkel appears to either be a streak shooter or a hot and cold shooter. If he is a streak shooter, it is hard to put a lid on his shots but his % is making me think something needs to happen. If he is a guy that either has it or doesn't then he should be shelved after a few misses as he will only hurt the team from that point forward. He has had games where his shots were not even close and other games where he probably didn't even look at the rim before draining shots. When I'm locked in, I can drain shots while staring a defender in the eyes. Some games I just don't have it and simply play D and find shots for teammates. This is not all on Travis, players need to understand their skillset. They need to make smart decisions. Travis however needs to help them understand how they can best help the team. I'm not seeing that. Scruggs and Odom can make Carter, Free and other bigs seem like gods if they make the right plays.

Johnson did not shoot well but he generally took good shots. Probably a questionable shot or 2 but nothing glaring like the other game and he has earned the right to take marginally acceptable shots.
stopped reading after this. with all due respect, what a horrible take and horrendous way to start a post.

sorry. it's just not right.

i may go back and read the rest later but that's not a good start.
longliveskip
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby longliveskip » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:21 pm

madness31 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:08 am
First, Mack was never a good coach. He went from bad to serviceable. Winning games does not make someone a good coach just as losing games does not make someone a bad coach. Winning games when you have interior talent makes you lucky if rare and good if frequent. Losing games you should win does the opposite. Mack was better known for losing games he should win than winning games he should lose. He underperformed almost every year he coached.

Odom was playing with confidence and showing a ton of potential before the first covid break. Since then, he is rarely seeing the court. He is a true PG and is desperately needed for future years. Scruggs is not a PG but he is distributing the ball very well.

Free and Carter should officially never shoot a 3 unless there is fewer than 5 seconds on the shot or game clock. Carter is at least aware of his struggles and limits his takes but Free is cluless and continues to hurt the team. When he hits a 3, it is even worse as he takes 5 more thinking he is suddenly a shooter. It is time for a captain to step up and put an end to the madness. Play without a center if necessary but do not let him shoot 3s. Tie him to his dorm bed or whatever is necessary but this has to stop.

Kunkel appears to either be a streak shooter or a hot and cold shooter. If he is a streak shooter, it is hard to put a lid on his shots but his % is making me think something needs to happen. If he is a guy that either has it or doesn't then he should be shelved after a few misses as he will only hurt the team from that point forward. He has had games where his shots were not even close and other games where he probably didn't even look at the rim before draining shots. When I'm locked in, I can drain shots while staring a defender in the eyes. Some games I just don't have it and simply play D and find shots for teammates. This is not all on Travis, players need to understand their skillset. They need to make smart decisions. Travis however needs to help them understand how they can best help the team. I'm not seeing that. Scruggs and Odom can make Carter, Free and other bigs seem like gods if they make the right plays.

Johnson did not shoot well but he generally took good shots. Probably a questionable shot or 2 but nothing glaring like the other game and he has earned the right to take marginally acceptable shots.
alright, let's discuss some of these other things:

Odom has not benefitted from the Covid pauses. in fact, they've negatively affected him and have not allowed him the time a freshmen needs to acclimate to big time college basketball, especially in the Big East, so it's not that unusual to see him regress some. he doesn't have much of an outside shot and teams know that now so until he gets at least somewhat of mid-range J/3, he's easily guardable. add to the fact that he got beat off the dribble twice vs the Johnnies in his limited minutes and you can see why he had limited minutes. not that he was only one, but with our depth at guard, you're not staying in that long if you do that. he will be fine once X gets to practice consistently.

Not worried about Freemantle taking 3's. he's shown he can make them and in our high ball screen offense, he's going to get 4-5 open looks from pick and pop situations. if he knocks down 2-3 of them, great. like you said, don't fall in love with it because he's much better shooting that baseline 7-8 footer he gets from guys driving or his jumphook in the paint. he did all those things vs SJU. Carter - just wish he could knock a 3 down early in a game and get his confidence back. if he could just go 1-2 or 1-3 each game that would be fine. that's all he needs to take and that's all he is taking so keep doing all the dirty work as well and he will be fine.

Kunkel has struggled lately but get him back in the gym for a week and he will find his stroke. not worried about him at all.

as i said before - we got open looks vs SJU. they just didn't go down. playing with no true 5, we knew we were going to have to hit shots vs them. we didn't. but we didn't make up for it much on the defensive end. that happens sometimes.

this is not some "downward trend" that a bunch of fans want to point to like the program is heading the wrong direction, etc. Steele will be fine. so will our players. they're ALL gonna get better. this IS an NCAA tournament team.

believe it. get behind Steele and the boys.

let's go.
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muskieman
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby muskieman » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:35 pm

Face facts as bad as we think the shooting was in the St Johns game if X had played decent Defense, not outstanding just decent, and held St Johns to their average X wins. How many games has X lost scoring 84 points? Face it the problem was their Defense. Watching the film I saw no one diving for a loose ball except St Johns. When the first lines players failed to play adequate defense and a bench player came in it didn't get any better. The team that played decent D at the beginning of the year especially when it came down to the end of games has been missing the last two games, even from our best D players.

Covid might not be an excuse but it is a reason why X hasn't had much practice time since the beginning of the year.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.
XU2011
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby XU2011 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:45 pm

muskieman wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:35 pm
Face facts as bad as we think the shooting was in the St Johns game if X had played decent Defense, not outstanding just decent, and held St Johns to their average X wins. How many games has X lost scoring 84 points? Face it the problem was their Defense. Watching the film I saw no one diving for a loose ball except St Johns. When the first lines players failed to play adequate defense and a bench player came in it didn't get any better. The team that played decent D at the beginning of the year especially when it came down to the end of games has been missing the last two games, even from our best D players.

Covid might not be an excuse but it is a reason why X hasn't had much practice time since the beginning of the year.


Agree....poor shooting night aside, you score 80+ points you should beat a bottom half of the league team with even a little effort.
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muskieman
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby muskieman » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:09 am

XU2011 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:45 pm
muskieman wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:35 pm
Face facts as bad as we think the shooting was in the St Johns game if X had played decent Defense, not outstanding just decent, and held St Johns to their average X wins. How many games has X lost scoring 84 points? Face it the problem was their Defense. Watching the film I saw no one diving for a loose ball except St Johns. When the first lines players failed to play adequate defense and a bench player came in it didn't get any better. The team that played decent D at the beginning of the year especially when it came down to the end of games has been missing the last two games, even from our best D players.

Covid might not be an excuse but it is a reason why X hasn't had much practice time since the beginning of the year.


Agree....poor shooting night aside, you score 80+ points you should beat a bottom half of the league team with even a little effort.
score 84 points with decent D should be everyone in the Big East and most teams in the NCAA.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.

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