Coaching Options

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muskieman
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby muskieman » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:29 am

ChitownSteve wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:37 pm
muskieman wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:49 pm
skyhops wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:52 am
He is on the board and gives a lot of money to Xavier, we are stuck with Student Manager Steele for a while.
beating your dead horse again. You think that complaining about it will one get what you want?

MM:

You and I have been simpatico on many things for several years now. You are dead wrong on Steele and I do not care if you ban me for a short while or forever from this Board.

As you know, I have always prefaced last names with the term “Coach”. Steele is not a Big East Coach, nor does he deserve to be in the #1 Chair any longer. X’s collapse this year is directly upon him.

My daughter and son and all of their basketball friends, who sat behind the basket at Xavier, are convinced he should be replaced. I know enough about college basketball to concur.

X’s AD is too stubborn and killing the program. What is your infatuation with Steele? Hops and AH have jousted with me for years on coaching issues. They are right on this.

Please, before you ban me, explain Steele’s strength?

ChitownSteve
I don't ban people and never have banned someone that disagrees with me. There are people here that disagree with me and they are still here. I am sorry you think so little of me. I don't know why you are saying I have an infatuation with anyone. My infatuation is with winning.

Maybe I am just trying to say what you and all the posters that keep beating a dead horse are wasting their time based on everything you and sky are saying. Sky himself has said Travis is going nowhere so why spend your waking hours telling us something that will not happen? I'd rather talk about players staying, players coming in and who might fill spots vacated.

I was watching the FSU game today and they mentioned that Hamilton coached for 7 years before he ever got to the NCAA tournament, they said where would FSU be had fired him because he hadn't taken them to the NCAA tourney. They mentioned that many big-time programs like IU fire someone like Archie before they are really given a chance. It is easy to fire a coach it is difficult to find one like Thadd Matta and Miller who brought X so much success.

Mack may never have found success if Steele had not brought X people like Tre and JP. I have heard people far more astute say how this year can not be the deciding factor for a coach. They went on to say how teams that had extended quarantine without practice failed this year. They also said that programs that have fired a coach may also lose most of their players because of the new rules. So what effect will that have on the program for a few more years?

I never made business decisions based on emotions and I can see that this board is full of emotions. I am willing to give Travis another year and I hope he finds an assistant that will be more than just a recruiter.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.
skyhops
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby skyhops » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:38 am

Tre and JP didn’t come to play for asst coach (manager) Travis Steele. They came to play for Xavier and Mack.
longliveskip
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby longliveskip » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:00 am

skyhops wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:38 am
Tre and JP didn’t come to play for asst coach (manager) Travis Steele. They came to play for Xavier and Mack.
so you think our current talent is actually GOOD enough? when we were healthy and practicing, i'd say YES. but losing Nate, Stanley and then Covid more than once, our talent couldn't win and I'd say Steele did all he could with what we had. yes, we fell short, but it was as much on the players as it is on Steele/staff. they're all to blame for the collapse. it's a collective effort by 10+ players and 4+ coaches and THEN SOME.

not ready to throw in the towel on Steele just yet, but why don't we wait and see how a full season without Covid, hopefully with fans, etc and some sort of normalcy actually goes.

until then, let's see how other pieces come together in the off-season.
yellow20xd
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby yellow20xd » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:35 am

skyhops wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:52 am
He is on the board and gives a lot of money to Xavier, we are stuck with Student Manager Steele for a while.
Is he willing to write a check that will cover all the loses that could potentially happen if Coach Steele truly does sink X's cash cow and #1 student recruiter???... Dan
"The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood"...
Lou Holtz
AirJordan
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby AirJordan » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:04 am

I'm in the LLSkip camp regarding Coach Steele. And, I don't think he gets a pass due to COVID and injuries. Although I concede COVID's effects were uneven, all teams had to manage through the protocols, lost practices and games. Watching Steele the last three years I haven't seen the maturation. He seemed lost three years ago and he seemed lost this year. The meltdown against Butler was a huge strike against his leadership. I think it is valid to remind us the players play the game and they are most responsible for this past season but this season ended just like last season and the common denominator isn't the players. Its the coaches.

However, in the end, MM wins the argument, I'm afraid. The administration isn't going to cut Coach Steele loose. It is expensive (in a time of tight budgets) and it sends a terrible message to potential Steele replacements. So, we will need to suffer through and hope for the best.

There is one possible ray of sunshine though. I also was watching the Fla. State game and I had the same thought as MM. Leonard Hamilton was an unsuccessful coach for a long time. Fla. State used to be an ACC doormat. Finally, whatever Hamilton was doing, worked. For the last five years (maybe more) the Noles have been a regular in March Madness. Maybe we catch lightening in a bottle. Who knows?

However, if the next year looks like the last three, I think we will have our answer about Coach Steele.
skyhops
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby skyhops » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:37 am

Agreed Steele isn’t going anywhere at least for a year. Hamilton is getting way better recruits and has been much more successful the last three plus prior to Florida has always been a football school and most of their fans never had expectations that we have.
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muskieman
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby muskieman » Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:09 am

skyhops wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:38 am
Tre and JP didn’t come to play for asst coach (manager) Travis Steele. They came to play for Xavier and Mack.
and Steele. After all, Mack would not have had the chance if Travis had not recruited them. How many Indiana I Minnesota players did we get out of Indiana and Minnesota before Travis?
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.
ChitownSteve
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby ChitownSteve » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:08 pm

AH & Mman:

Thank you for the courteous and thoughtful replies. Good to know that true dialogue is welcomed on this site which I have enjoyed for the last 11 years (time and seasons fly).

Mman, please do not take remarks as if I think little of you, to the contrary, my intent was to engage with you in the hopes that you too will relay and conclude that a change is in order. Desirous of provoking additional thought by you which causes a shift in your position, a person with some contacts and influence who could point out the flawed reasoning in Steele’s retention.

No need to belabor this, so for brevity, submit the following, in no particular order:

- Announcers comments about all D-1 Coaches are generally worthless. When was the last time any of them pointed out flaws or called for a dismissal of any Coach?
- Probable that other schools are already negatively recruiting against Steele. Ultimately there will be a transition and his inability to snare the level of players X needs to succeed in the Big East certainly already impinged. Who is X keeping that would not stay if he is replaced and even if true, the longer the inevitable is prolonged, the more difficult the recovery.
- I would submit the emotion is more on the side of defenders of Steele. There is no objective data to support retention. If they have such insight, it would be wonderful to learn of it so that those of us calling for his termination could reassess our position.
- Unquestionably, the COVID situation should be taken into consideration. However, it has also been Steele’s opportunity to prove something. His previous two years were not stellar and the additional failure this year should be overlooked? One earn’s a free pass, such should not be granted for showing up. As a businessperson, I’d question the astuteness of those using that rationale. This year was not a “one off” for his tenure.
- Change only comes through continued effort. If we meekly accept positions, which are evidently compromised due to nepotism, we are part of the problem.

Again, thank you for the responses and for accepting the comments given in the spirit intended. We all share our desire for X to succeed.

Go Muskies!
edgecliff hall
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby edgecliff hall » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:28 pm

One of the best and most articulate posters here at Madness is ChitownSteve. I always pay close attention when I see his name on a heading.
Steve, I am sure that most of us would welcome a few comments from you covering your background, education and career experience.
I suspect you being very smart. Please share with us.
ChitownSteve
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby ChitownSteve » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:34 pm

Edgecliff:

You are far too kind. I’m just fellow with South Side of Chicago roots who was smart enough to listen to the late Tom Siemers about Xavier University. Tom was a genuine leader on a Board we were on in Cincinnati in the late’90’s through 2005, which served the thrift industry (think “It’s a Wonderful Life). When it came time for College, my wife and I made sure X was on our children’s list. Thankfully, both chose to become Musketeers.

Always found Cincinnatians to be friendly and family and community oriented. X was everything Tom, and others I came to know through that Board role, said it would be and then some.

We are fortunate people and I’ve long had an unexpressed wish of meeting other posters at the Cintas Center. Several years ago I had a nice conversation or two there with Muskieman. Also, met the late Mr. Neutral at a pregame DePaul - Marquette gathering. Good guys.

Maybe during the ‘21-‘22 Season a game could be selected to fulfill that wish to gather and hoist a beverage.

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