St Johns game thread

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muskieman
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby muskieman » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:33 pm

skyhops wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:30 pm
Me too MM, I can’t imagine Mack’s team going 11/40 from three and saying in his presser that he is not worried about the offense and if he is so concerned about defense neither Free or Carter would play much next game. Johnson and Kunkel took poor shots early in the shot clock and continued to do it. This team is soft and I don’t see it changing next year
Maybe you should give up if you are so upset. You will live longer.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.
Anti-Homer
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby Anti-Homer » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:09 am

Steele was known as an innovative offensive coach as an assistant. I believe he is. When X commits to running sets and not just chucking up threes, they run good plays. The problem is he gives everyone free rein to shoot anytime, from any place. Exhibits A,B, & C were his enabling Marshall, Goodin, and Carter to shoot treys at will. Very mind-boggling.

He also instilled a defensive toughness with the team for two years, something never seen during the Mack years. He obviously knows the game, but I don't think his philosophy is suited for long-term success. I know this is just one example, but he actually told the team to not foul a shooter with 1.8 seconds up by three, and the guy missed a clean shot.

Also, when a team is clearly better at playing a certain style, and is winning because of it, you don't accommodate them (see Bennett, Virginia). Instead of taking the air out of the ball and running 23 seconds off the clock, Steele tried to play John's style, which played right into their hands. They execute in an up and down game. X doesn't. He didn't make any adjustments until it was too late.

X still has life, and I hope I'm wrong, but don't believe they will have sustained success as they have experienced in the previous two decades (almost) under his watch. I really hope I'm wrong. Sadly, the Board has learned it doesn't often happen.
X-lucidity
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby X-lucidity » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:25 am

No sense getting on each others nerves. Quite a few outside obstacles this year, but most programs have faced those so no crying. I only have my own combo of watching tons of ball, playing organized ball only to Jr. High levels, then coaching lots of school and club ball. So no real master of the trade or guru here to be sure to be judging major college ball. I see consistent troubling issues though: a D that is easily broken down by quick passing or strong dribble drive. A poor rebounding team. An offense that lacks an identity, and most nights, an offense that seems to depend upon helter-skelter fortune rather than a designed purpose. Compound that with often a very poor usage of timeouts and head-scratching game plans. (such as tonight) Sprinkle the cherry on top of not a lot of evidence of solid player development and you have what we have, a season on the brink, and possibly a program in decline. Back when Vanilla Ice pulled his crap, I lobbied on this very board to have X aggressively at least court Nate Oats. A few folks seemed to agree or at least mention a few other up and comers from other small school programs, but most seemed in favor of Steele. I had nothing at all against Travis, just thought we had become enough of a force to actually become a poacher, instead of the poached.
I know it is cheesy, but when I work with a new set of young kids to start a pre-season, I always bust out the phrase "ball don't lie" Takes a while of repeating, drilling and explaining but normally they get what I mean after a few weeks, some more than others. But ball don't lie, never has and never will. That is why I knew, barely 5 minutes into this game when we were running up and down the court jacking early 3's, that the Johnnies were going to grab this crucial late season Quad One win...
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby 107897 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:27 am

Freemantle's defense is terrible. His hands are always down and his close outs are slow and just going through the motion. He wants to appear to have his hand up on the jump shot (see Errington) but has no real interest in interfering with the shot. He also must realize coaches cannot dock him playing time for lack of effort because there is no body else to play. Our lack of post depth is obvious. Free is a good 4 man but no 5. How would Tyrique help this year's team?
skyhops
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby skyhops » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:35 am

Hand down man down
longliveskip
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby longliveskip » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:27 am

gentlemen - we are what we are without Griffin, Stanley, and Miles/Ramsey not being ready.

we don't have a low post presence without them (or much of one with them, really) so we know we are going to have to shoot the ball well to win.

yes, defensively that was probably our worst game but somehow we managed to beat that same team without hitting a 3, i believe.

i'm just reminded, each and every time i come on here, why i really don't come on here that much. the doom and gloom, negativity, Steele sucks as a coach, his rotations suck, he has no idea what he's doing, why is this guy playing, why are we playing zone, where the adjustments, etc really don't bring ANYTHING to this board at all.

there are some on here, who i believe, their X fandom is inherently rooted in negativity/criticism for the coach and certain players. it's almost like they are HOPING we lose/fail so that they're posts about Steele can be confirmed. how is that being a fan? how is that even fun? it can't be. i really don't know how some of you do it on here.

was i frustrated last night? certainly. do i think we can be better? yes. do i believe we WILL get better? EMPHATICALLY YES.

even when we WIN there are some on here who just feel like pointing out the negatives from the game. to that i ask, how are your lives outside of Xavier Basketball? do you look for the negatives in all that you do?

i just love how so many people on here that have never set foot in a D1 practice or ever been a part of a D1 program in ANY sport, let alone basketball, feel like they know more and could do better than Steele.

it's fine, though. everyone is entitled to their opinions. and this is a place where you can feel free to spew any type of drivel(for the most part) you want about the coach, players, program, etc.

i'm happy to engage with those that want to actually discuss the game itself without going straight to the "Steele needs to be gone" or "this player stinks", etc.

the boys and Steele will be fine and i'm behind them 100%.

let's go.
skyhops
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby skyhops » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:48 am

You don’t need to step into a D1 practice to be skeptical of the direction that this program is heading under Steele. When are Ramsey/Miles going to be ready?
X-lucidity
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby X-lucidity » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:01 am

Skip, I love these knee-***** posts that happen all the time like yours. We are on the same page more than you think. I support Steele and the team. Have said so multiple times including earlier on this thread. But your attitude is what I call "The Dave Lapham" approach. Your analysis always stops at a certain point out of loyalty. Loyalty is fantastic, but it can, if allowed to be the underlying buffer, lead to 30+ years of at best mediocrity. (See my beloved Bungles). OK, you asked if we can actually analyze the game, I agree. Let us drill down to just one aspect. Offensive game plan. It was very clear from opening tip that Travis was encouraging a 'tit for tat' approach. You run down and shoot early and often then we will speed down and shoot early and often. To me, that fed right into the pace the Johnnies excel in. It's been borne out during their recent hot streak. While not advocating stall-ball, how about we go in looking to push if transition dictate, but otherwise, seek a steady usage of at least 20 seconds of the shot clock probing and looking to run our O though various post looks. Try to get their thin post players in some foul trouble. If they double or stymie our player, Free or Carter could kick out to an outside shooter. Look for who Posh was guarding, post that guard on the block, at least try a few times. The 3 point shots we were taking in the first 12 seconds of the shot clock would have readily been there in the last 8 seconds of the shot clock. The fact that we were not posting anyone up also hurt our positioning for offensive rebounding.
Thoughts? (we can discuss our woeful D on another day)
longliveskip
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby longliveskip » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:19 am

X-lucidity wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:01 am
Skip, I love these knee-***** posts that happen all the time like yours. We are on the same page more than you think. I support Steele and the team. Have said so multiple times including earlier on this thread. But your attitude is what I call "The Dave Lapham" approach. Your analysis always stops at a certain point out of loyalty. Loyalty is fantastic, but it can, if allowed to be the underlying buffer, lead to 30+ years of at best mediocrity. (See my beloved Bungles). OK, you asked if we can actually analyze the game, I agree. Let us drill down to just one aspect. Offensive game plan. It was very clear from opening tip that Travis was encouraging a 'tit for tat' approach. You run down and shoot early and often then we will speed down and shoot early and often. To me, that fed right into the pace the Johnnies excel in. It's been borne out during their recent hot streak. While not advocating stall-ball, how about we go in looking to push if transition dictate, but otherwise, seek a steady usage of at least 20 seconds of the shot clock probing and looking to run our O though various post looks. Try to get their thin post players in some foul trouble. If they double or stymie our player, Free or Carter could kick out to an outside shooter. Look for who Posh was guarding, post that guard on the block, at least try a few times. The 3 point shots we were taking in the first 12 seconds of the shot clock would have readily been there in the last 8 seconds of the shot clock. The fact that we were not posting anyone up also hurt our positioning for offensive rebounding.
Thoughts? (we can discuss our woeful D on another day)
I'm all for playing some form of "use the shot clock" but Steele has said from the beginning of the season that he wanted to play faster. we have the shooters/guards/depth to be able to do it, even against a team like the Johnnies, but when we got our open looks last night, we just didn't make them.

i get it, our D gave them some open looks but also, objectively watching the game, even when our defense DID play well, it seemed SJU hit some tough, contested shots. i don't mind, if Nate/Kunkel/CJ/Colby/KyKy get a wide open look within the first 12 seconds of the shot clock and they take it. might as well do that. those just didn't go in.

our D, even when shots aren't falling, need to be better. we only gave up 9 offensive rebounds and we had less than 10 turnovers vs a team that thrives on forcing them, so we really didn't play bad in all areas. the dribble penetration leading to some easy dunks (or in transition) was very disappointing.

we played a hot team that had won 5 of 6 and as well as SJU played/shot and as bad as we played/shot, we were still TWO open looks going in and one stop on D from basically being a tie game. it's fine line and SJU had to play/shoot out of their minds to beat us.

we will get better.

Steele, with 4-5 practices before our next game, will get the boys ready.

let's just hope no more Covid pauses.
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muskieman
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Re: St Johns game thread

Postby muskieman » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:45 pm

longliveskip wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:27 am
gentlemen - we are what we are without Griffin, Stanley, and Miles/Ramsey not being ready.

we don't have a low post presence without them (or much of one with them, really) so we know we are going to have to shoot the ball well to win.

yes, defensively that was probably our worst game but somehow we managed to beat that same team without hitting a 3, i believe.

i'm just reminded, each and every time i come on here, why i really don't come on here that much. the doom and gloom, negativity, Steele sucks as a coach, his rotations suck, he has no idea what he's doing, why is this guy playing, why are we playing zone, where the adjustments, etc really don't bring ANYTHING to this board at all.

there are some on here, who i believe, their X fandom is inherently rooted in negativity/criticism for the coach and certain players. it's almost like they are HOPING we lose/fail so that they're posts about Steele can be confirmed. how is that being a fan? how is that even fun? it can't be. i really don't know how some of you do it on here.

was i frustrated last night? certainly. do i think we can be better? yes. do i believe we WILL get better? EMPHATICALLY YES.

even when we WIN there are some on here who just feel like pointing out the negatives from the game. to that i ask, how are your lives outside of Xavier Basketball? do you look for the negatives in all that you do?

i just love how so many people on here that have never set foot in a D1 practice or ever been a part of a D1 program in ANY sport, let alone basketball, feel like they know more and could do better than Steele.

it's fine, though. everyone is entitled to their opinions. and this is a place where you can feel free to spew any type of drivel(for the most part) you want about the coach, players, program, etc.

i'm happy to engage with those that want to actually discuss the game itself without going straight to the "Steele needs to be gone" or "this player stinks", etc.

the boys and Steele will be fine and i'm behind them 100%.

let's go.
Thank you. You are 100% right. Last night shows what this on and off-season is producing. I hope that we can get Griff back and productive and find a way that Odom can regain the confidence and success he showed early on this season. As for Carter, how do you get a guy to regain his touch except to keep getting more shooting time in the gym and to shoot when open in games. As I said last night top priority is a point that can run the show.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.

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