Coaching Options

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muskieman
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby muskieman » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:45 pm

Tom was a great guy. We had lunch from time to time where we would talk over X basketball and life in general, he always had a great perspective on issues. His savings and loan was one of my clients and I also advised Tom and his family on real estate purchases. Tom owned the Crickets in downtown at one time and had one of the outside signs in his basement. I had lunch about a month before he died and we talked about life and death and what is waiting for us. I think it was harder on me than on him. I still miss him
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.
Musketeer1
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby Musketeer1 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:15 pm

I would still love to hear the evidence upon which those who support Steele and/or those take the fatalist approach (i.e. he is going to be here, so get over it) base their opinion that he can get better. We have all watched the same games. What evidence is being missed that portends of a promising (or at least competent) future? It really may help some of us to be able to enjoy next season a bit more. That not EVERYONE has decided to transfer cannot be it, can it?
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XavierBob
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby XavierBob » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:56 pm

I’ll take a shot on why I think next year is make or brake for Travis. I’m willing to give him year four, but, as many of you know I’ve been very critical of our coach but hold out some hope.

Year one, when X won 19 games with the roster the had my immediate response was man this guy knows what he is doing.

Year two. Things were looking fine until the Scruggs injury. Win one of the final games X is in no doubt. Didn’t happen that’s on the staff. The question that will never be answered is what would have happened on selection Sunday. I’ve heard Mario on podcast since saying we would have made the dance. I usually trust him and his numbers but in reality we will never know.

Year three, my doubts start to grow. I thought this team had enough talent to be a tournament team. For most of the season it looked that way. Real problems surfaced during the final month. Rotations became almost unexplainable, why Carter got so much run I’ll never know. The Butler result was inexcusable. All teams were effected by Covid, I’m not an insider I don’t know how hard it hit X.
All that being said if I were the AD I’d give him one more year, you might ask why. I think he has shown that he can recruit, I believe he knows the game and has effective strategies. Problem is translating that to actual games. I think he needs to define player roles more and I’d get rid of the any shot is a good shot mindset. There would be bottom line goals. I think Travis understands that his results are not meeting expectations, especially this year.

We all know he is coming back, if the production isn’t there time to cut the cord. BTW the rational discussion is great, we all want the same things, hoping we get there.
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby AirJordan » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:31 pm

Musketeer1 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:15 pm
I would still love to hear the evidence upon which those who support Steele and/or those take the fatalist approach (i.e. he is going to be here, so get over it) base their opinion that he can get better. We have all watched the same games. What evidence is being missed that portends of a promising (or at least competent) future? It really may help some of us to be able to enjoy next season a bit more. That not EVERYONE has decided to transfer cannot be it, can it?
I never want to think improvement is not possible. We have all known people (including perhaps ourselves) who found themselves in positions of responsibility before they were ready. I have seen people I initially thought to be remarkedly unprepared develop, over time, into capable managers and decision makers. It requires time and a desire to improve, get better, etc. Most of all, it means that the individual must acknowledge their own mistakes. Those with egos too big or too fragile to so acknowledge simply don't get better quickly. So, I believe it is possible for Coach Steele to improve.

Do I expect him to improve in one year? In a word, No. I just haven't been able to watch him and come away thinking to myself, "this guy knows what he's doing". For me, its more than the wins and losses although admittedly, some losses (think Butler) are harder to forget. It is about decisions and player rotations that I simply cannot understand. Why did we not, at least, try Tandy in some situations? Why play Carter all those minutes, game after game, when he was so ineffective? Why did Steele heap praise on Wilcher and then let him sit when we needed a shooter? What the hell went on with Ramsey? Why was Steele so deficient in his communication to the fan base and what does that say about communication to his team? Some of his quotes make me think him clueless. There are plenty more questions and that's the thing with me. In twelve years of increasing responsibility, why does Steele continue to appear (to me anyway) to be so under-prepared to be our coach?

So, do I think he can improve? Yes. If we have five more years (or so) I think Coach Steele will become a more mature and confident coach. But, we have one year. One year, at least, before we have to make a decision to extend his contract. And, I don't think we will see material improvement by this time next year......at least based on what I've witnessed for the last three. There is an old saying that "if you are not getting better, you are getting worse. Do not think you are staying the same." I believe the program is sliding and as a long time X fan, I hate to see that.

But there is one year remaining (as I understand it) on a contract that pays him $1.0 million annually. If we let him go, we still have to pay him for the remainder of his contract. Plus, at that point, we have to go find a new coach and we may be negotiating from a position of weakness. Personally, I dislike terminating a contract early unless for reasons outside of coaching, like personal conduct. I think that sends the wrong message and it also isn't taking the high road. So, it is a no-brainer to me that X should give Steele the four years we promised him regardless of how I think it will ultimately turn out.

I'm no coach. I haven't walked in Steele's shoes like some on this board who have coaching experience. My feelings about him are completely subjective. I just have a gut feeling that he wasn't ready three years ago (despite what any of us might have hoped) and he isn't ready now. Most importantly, he won't be ready next year. I hope I'm wrong on that as I have no interest in being an accurate pessimist. And, since I have been wrong about lots of different things on many different occasions, I hope my assessment of Steele is incorrect.
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby Jesseandrippers » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:02 pm

AirJordan wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:31 pm
Musketeer1 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:15 pm
I would still love to hear the evidence upon which those who support Steele and/or those take the fatalist approach (i.e. he is going to be here, so get over it) base their opinion that he can get better. We have all watched the same games. What evidence is being missed that portends of a promising (or at least competent) future? It really may help some of us to be able to enjoy next season a bit more. That not EVERYONE has decided to transfer cannot be it, can it?
I never want to think improvement is not possible. We have all known people (including perhaps ourselves) who found themselves in positions of responsibility before they were ready. I have seen people I initially thought to be remarkedly unprepared develop, over time, into capable managers and decision makers. It requires time and a desire to improve, get better, etc. Most of all, it means that the individual must acknowledge their own mistakes. Those with egos too big or too fragile to so acknowledge simply don't get better quickly. So, I believe it is possible for Coach Steele to improve.

Do I expect him to improve in one year? In a word, No. I just haven't been able to watch him and come away thinking to myself, "this guy knows what he's doing". For me, its more than the wins and losses although admittedly, some losses (think Butler) are harder to forget. It is about decisions and player rotations that I simply cannot understand. Why did we not, at least, try Tandy in some situations? Why play Carter all those minutes, game after game, when he was so ineffective? Why did Steele heap praise on Wilcher and then let him sit when we needed a shooter? What the hell went on with Ramsey? Why was Steele so deficient in his communication to the fan base and what does that say about communication to his team? Some of his quotes make me think him clueless. There are plenty more questions and that's the thing with me. In twelve years of increasing responsibility, why does Steele continue to appear (to me anyway) to be so under-prepared to be our coach?

So, do I think he can improve? Yes. If we have five more years (or so) I think Coach Steele will become a more mature and confident coach. But, we have one year. One year, at least, before we have to make a decision to extend his contract. And, I don't think we will see material improvement by this time next year......at least based on what I've witnessed for the last three. There is an old saying that "if you are not getting better, you are getting worse. Do not think you are staying the same." I believe the program is sliding and as a long time X fan, I hate to see that.

But there is one year remaining (as I understand it) on a contract that pays him $1.0 million annually. If we let him go, we still have to pay him for the remainder of his contract. Plus, at that point, we have to go find a new coach and we may be negotiating from a position of weakness. Personally, I dislike terminating a contract early unless for reasons outside of coaching, like personal conduct. I think that sends the wrong message and it also isn't taking the high road. So, it is a no-brainer to me that X should give Steele the four years we promised him regardless of how I think it will ultimately turn out.

I'm no coach. I haven't walked in Steele's shoes like some on this board who have coaching experience. My feelings about him are completely subjective. I just have a gut feeling that he wasn't ready three years ago (despite what any of us might have hoped) and he isn't ready now. Most importantly, he won't be ready next year. I hope I'm wrong on that as I have no interest in being an accurate pessimist. And, since I have been wrong about lots of different things on many different occasions, I hope my assessment of Steele is incorrect.
Would you feel the same if I told you his contract went through 2024? Well, it does.
AirJordan
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby AirJordan » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:22 pm

When Steele was offered the job he was given a four year contract. At least, I thought that was the deal. So, was the contract a six year deal or did X extend it?

Does it change my mind? Well, it makes the unlikely event of X terminating his contract early, even more unlikely. I hope I'm wrong about his inability to get better. I really, really hope I'm wrong.
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muskieman
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby muskieman » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:22 am

Just think if, after the first three years when your team had only won a total of 21 games while losing 53 games if your school gave you one more year and you only went 15-16 finishing 11th in your conference you would have fired, Scott Homer Drew, you would not be in the final four in 2021 leading Baylor.
I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.
Foretan
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby Foretan » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:47 am

AirJordan wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:31 pm
Musketeer1 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:15 pm
I would still love to hear the evidence upon which those who support Steele and/or those take the fatalist approach (i.e. he is going to be here, so get over it) base their opinion that he can get better. We have all watched the same games. What evidence is being missed that portends of a promising (or at least competent) future? It really may help some of us to be able to enjoy next season a bit more. That not EVERYONE has decided to transfer cannot be it, can it?
I never want to think improvement is not possible. We have all known people (including perhaps ourselves) who found themselves in positions of responsibility before they were ready. I have seen people I initially thought to be remarkedly unprepared develop, over time, into capable managers and decision makers. It requires time and a desire to improve, get better, etc. Most of all, it means that the individual must acknowledge their own mistakes. Those with egos too big or too fragile to so acknowledge simply don't get better quickly. So, I believe it is possible for Coach Steele to improve.

Do I expect him to improve in one year? In a word, No. I just haven't been able to watch him and come away thinking to myself, "this guy knows what he's doing". For me, its more than the wins and losses although admittedly, some losses (think Butler) are harder to forget. It is about decisions and player rotations that I simply cannot understand. Why did we not, at least, try Tandy in some situations? Why play Carter all those minutes, game after game, when he was so ineffective? Why did Steele heap praise on Wilcher and then let him sit when we needed a shooter? What the hell went on with Ramsey? Why was Steele so deficient in his communication to the fan base and what does that say about communication to his team? Some of his quotes make me think him clueless. There are plenty more questions and that's the thing with me. In twelve years of increasing responsibility, why does Steele continue to appear (to me anyway) to be so under-prepared to be our coach?

So, do I think he can improve? Yes. If we have five more years (or so) I think Coach Steele will become a more mature and confident coach. But, we have one year. One year, at least, before we have to make a decision to extend his contract. And, I don't think we will see material improvement by this time next year......at least based on what I've witnessed for the last three. There is an old saying that "if you are not getting better, you are getting worse. Do not think you are staying the same." I believe the program is sliding and as a long time X fan, I hate to see that.

But there is one year remaining (as I understand it) on a contract that pays him $1.0 million annually. If we let him go, we still have to pay him for the remainder of his contract. Plus, at that point, we have to go find a new coach and we may be negotiating from a position of weakness. Personally, I dislike terminating a contract early unless for reasons outside of coaching, like personal conduct. I think that sends the wrong message and it also isn't taking the high road. So, it is a no-brainer to me that X should give Steele the four years we promised him regardless of how I think it will ultimately turn out.

I'm no coach. I haven't walked in Steele's shoes like some on this board who have coaching experience. My feelings about him are completely subjective. I just have a gut feeling that he wasn't ready three years ago (despite what any of us might have hoped) and he isn't ready now. Most importantly, he won't be ready next year. I hope I'm wrong on that as I have no interest in being an accurate pessimist. And, since I have been wrong about lots of different things on many different occasions, I hope my assessment of Steele is incorrect.
I absolutely agree with you. very deep thoughts that respond within me.
longliveskip
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby longliveskip » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:21 am

muskieman wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:22 am
Just think if, after the first three years when your team had only won a total of 21 games while losing 53 games if your school gave you one more year and you only went 15-16 finishing 11th in your conference you would have fired, Scott Homer Drew, you would not be in the final four in 2021 leading Baylor.
Add Sampson to that. Houston didn't even sniff the NCAA tourney his first 3 years. now, either him or Drew will be coaching for a national championship. #ittakestime #inSteelewetrust
AirJordan
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Re: Coaching Options

Postby AirJordan » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:26 am

muskieman wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:22 am
Just think if, after the first three years when your team had only won a total of 21 games while losing 53 games if your school gave you one more year and you only went 15-16 finishing 11th in your conference you would have fired, Scott Homer Drew, you would not be in the final four in 2021 leading Baylor.
Scott Drew, as I recall, took over at Baylor after the huge Dave Bliss scandal involving one team member murdering another, illegal payments to players, etc. The program, when Drew took over, too late in the year to recruit, was in shambles. So, Coach Drew's bar, initially, was very low. Just getting through a season without controversy was considered a success. Coach Steele, please remember, assumed the Xavier reins on the heels of a top regional seed in March Madness. He prepared a plan, which none of us ever saw, that supposedly outlined how Xavier was going to take the final step and arrive at a national championship. I don't know if its just me, but sure seems like we regressed a bit doesn't it?

So circumstances surrounding the hiring of Scott Drew and Travis Steele were vastly different were they not? But, you are correct. Any coach that is let go will, more than likely, never lead that team to a future final four. For example, I don't expect Wojo will coach Marquette to a final four anytime soon. If the university had stood by Wojo and given him the fifteen plus years accorded to Scott Drew, Marquette might have arrived (again) at the promised land.

If the buyout for Coach Steele is large, as implied by the remaining contract term, he probably will be here awhile. We will get to test your analogy. And, I expect we will get to see Xavier in a final four soon, say in fifteen years? Since Coaches Drew and Steele both served as student managers of Butler Bulldog basketball, they likely were trained in exactly the same manner.

Good luck to us!

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