Division I or Division II

[_LH]

On Cincinnati.com this week, there have been a few stories about whether or not Northern Kentucky University will make a final push to jump from DII to DI now that they have a 10,000 on campus basketball venue.

As you are probably aware, the NCAA has capped the entry to DI until 2011 as there are over 300 DI schools at the moment and more want entry each year it seems.

I really think there are about 100 or so teams too many in DI as it is and would like to see the NCAA take the time between now and 2011 to think about creating a DIAA for 100 or more programs.

There are probably 10-12 DI Conferences that would be better off in DIAA along with the 20 or so DI basketball independents.

Thoughts?

[muskienick]

As evidenced by the fact that there has never been a 16 seed defeat a 1 seed in the NCAA Tourney (and exceedingly few 14 and 15 seeds win in the first round), it would seem reasonable for the NCAA to create such a new level.

Of course there would be a large amount of negative fallout from this plan and as many problems created as those solved.

1) Would there be a separate post-season Tourney for this new group?
2) Wouldn't the RPI formula have to be changed to disallow the inclusion of games against these lower-level teams (or at least to downgrade their impact on a top-level D-1 program's RPI victory over such a team?
3) Wouldn't the upper-level D-1 teams gain even a greater edge in recruiting than they already have if current lower-ranking D-1's (like conferences which have the majority of their members with RPI's from #175 - #336) would be further relegated to a designated subordinate division?
4) What group of conferences (or independents) would volunteer to allow themselves to be demoted to a lower level?

The concept you propose makes plenty of sense but its implementation would not be easy to say the least.

[CarlosTheJackal]

Div 1 is the sacred credential, and there will never be enough votes to go the way you are proposing. The large school conferences that can afford massive football programs have enough votes and leverage to negotiate themselves into BCS status, but the same is not true of the larger basketball conferences. Too many schools play basketball. The mid and lower level leagues get needed badly needed revenue sharing from the tournament money, and that tends to support all sports, always a good idea. So it just isnt going to happen.

I have no problem with more Div 1 schools. In fact I think there should be a year long open format tournament. If you are an NCAA member school at any level, if you want in you pays your entry fee, regardless of division. This would be modeled after the Indiana one class tournament, or the FA Cup in Britain, where every team in every division plays, blind draw for brackets. Yes we might have to play NKU or Findlay or Otterbien in early rounds. or Ohio State.

[_LH]

I agree it would be a nightmare and many would be as upset as they would be happy. I don't see it happening like this for obvious reason but if I were king for a year, this is what I would do:

I would move 10 current DI Conferences to DIAA along with the 9 Independents. That would remove 10 DI Conferences and make DIAA 112 teams. Programs like NKU would be immediately allowed to jump to DIAA.

In order to stay as a DI program, each member would be held to tougher rules and bench marks. No more 1,000 seat arenas. No more langushing for decades as you feed off of others in your conference. I am not going to go into great detail but the basic idea is that, teams could be moved down to DIAA if certain parameters are not met. These teams would be replaced with DIAA schools that have demonstrated a history of doing what the DI school failed to do.

Oh yeah and there would now be 10 more at large bids avaialbe on Selection Sunday.

1) Would there be a separate post-season Tourney for this new group? - Sure, why not. DII has one.
2) Wouldn't the RPI formula have to be changed to disallow the inclusion of games against these lower-level teams (or at least to downgrade their impact on a top-level D-1 program's RPI victory over such a team? - Screw the RPI. DI programs can play no more than 2 DIAA programs in any one season and will not be allowed to play road games at DIAA schools.
3) Wouldn't the upper-level D-1 teams gain even a greater edge in recruiting than they already have if current lower-ranking D-1's (like conferences which have the majority of their members with RPI's from #175 - #336) would be further relegated to a designated subordinate division? - Removing 112 teams would still allow DI to have well over 200 teams, so there would be an advantage but not that much more than we have today.
4) What group of conferences (or independents) would volunteer to allow themselves to be demoted to a lower level? - None of couse but since I am king for the year, what I say goes.

I know the NCAA cannot just up a move teams and conferences to lower divisions but a real world mandate could be might to toughen up qualifications for DI member conferences and programs.

[passthepuck?]

With respect to the new NKU arena, my wife will occasionally teach in one of the graduate programs over there and I will catch a game from time to time. Could there be a more ugly campus? They have loyal following of about 250 people. They play double headers, women first, men’s game second. Two hundred fifty people are going to look mighty small in a 10,000 seat venue. Now they will fill the joint for Louisville, but wait until Southern Indiana comes to town. I wish them luck and hope they don’t cook too many hot dogs.

With respect to a new division in college basketball, while it would be great to shorten the field, there was a time when Xavier would have been considered for demotion. As Henry Paulsen would say, “It’s always about the money.” No money = no change.

[_LH]

PTP,

I agree about NKU and I am sure they will also have conferences and some concerts to fill it up from time to time. I am not thrilled with the fact that NKU payed $2M to U of L to play two exhibition games either.

[tacitus]

I don't mind there being a cap for a couple years, but I do not agree with forcing the bottom 100 out. Fine, a 16 seed has never beaten a 1 seed. But it is such a huge deal for those 16 seeds who have never been to the tournament before, that losing that game, though it still hurts, is overshadowed by the experience and the revenue for the school. (And it will happen eventually.) By limiting the pool of schools by a third, it becomes so much less of a deal to make the tournament, because everyone left has made it before. It would also pretty much ruin those 100 schools' chances of being able to recruit any sort of talent and marketing their product. And let's be honest, the way education is MARKETED in this country, sports have a very noticeable impact on general enrollment. These teams are already in the bottom conferences, why add insult to injury? I'm not saying they should just let anyone in. But those teams who are ready to compete and commit to this level should be considered. Those that find out they can't handle it, have the right leave.

[muskieman]

What would be the standard for the dropping the bottom 100 schools. Rank would be unfair as it is subjective, school size watch out there, budget. I think it would be easy to pick the top 100 schools but even there 97-98-99-100-101-102-103 are toss ups.

I could see the bcs schools trying to form their own division when too many non bcs school become more successful but as for now dropping the bottom would be just as tough as the A-10 losing their bottom feeders.

[Mr. Neutral]

Those schools at the bottom of the Div. I list are just following that old real estate maxim-it's better to have the worst house in a good neighborhood than the best house in a bad neighborhood.

When you look at the last 20 schools in the RPI, they seem closer to Div. II than I, other than being "buy" games for the bigger schools.

[muskieman]

Of course, the last 25 also look like they should be DII. The point is there will be 3-10 schools on either side of the cutoff point that will have a legit gripe.