Two questions that maybe Wise and Q can answer.

[gundun]

I can't find on Google the Final AP or Coaches (I assume UPI) Polls for 1958 or 1961.

So my first question is; After we won the NIT did we get any votes in the polls? Since only 24 schools were invited to the NCAA, I would assume we should have gotten some votes or did all those losses in the last half of the season kill us?

Ditto for the second question, only that we were one of the 24 teams invited. BTW, any stories on that team would be appreciated.

Thanks

[wkrq59]

I can't find on Google the Final AP or Coaches (I assume UPI) Polls for 1958 or 1961.

So my first question is; After we won the NIT did we get any votes in the polls? Since only 24 schools were invited to the NCAA, I would assume we should have gotten some votes or did all those losses in the last half of the season kill us?

Ditto for the second question, only that we were one of the 24 teams invited. BTW, any stories on that team would be appreciated.

Thanks

I don't know that UPI ever had a poll until shortly before it folded. I remember an AP poll and a Chuck Taylor-sponsored All-Americans poll and another poll Scripps Howard papers carried.
After the NIT victory I'm reasonably certain Xavier was never rated. Owl may know for sure. I know after that tournament ended, UC was in the NCAA and most of the focus was on their rating and them.
Again, I may be wrong but I'm sure Owl remembers. q

[Wisexuowl]

Q, wasn't that "other" poll the DUNKEL RATINGS?

Any who .. I can't say for sure, but I don't believe that there were any post-tournamnt polls by anyone.

[wkrq59]

Q, wasn't that "other" poll the DUNKEL RATINGS?

Any who .. I can't say for sure, but I don't believe that there were any post-tournamnt polls by anyone.

You're right on both counts. Dunkel still has some exposure today, but there's another outfit that handicaps the games and I can't for the life of me remember who it is.
And I don't think back in those days that there was as much credence given to polls as there is today.

I do recall that CCNY was the last or maybe the only school to win both the NIT and the NCAA which followed it. I also remember the NIT being the preferred tournament because only conference champions got to go to the NCAA. The NIT also had greater credence than the NCAA because of the New York City press and radio. TV was just coming into its own, and basketball was king in NYC.So if Cincinnati won the MoValley Conference crown, the NIT scooped up Bradley and Wichita and maybe even Drake. The invites were also mailed out early so the NIT could have the most attractive field.

[gundun]

Q,
You answered my question about 1958. I thought the final polls would have come out after the tournaments. Then I would have expected us to get some votes. If that was the case and X didn't get any votes -- then it would have been difficult to argue that we won an important (ranking-wise) championship.

Regarding 1961, I am still wondering how we got an at-large bid without any votes in the final poll. Must have been a ton of conference runner-ups ahead of us.

BTW, I think it is the Sagarin ratings that you were thinking of.


Thanks to both of you

[wkrq59]

Thanks, Gundin. It was the sagrin ratings. But back in those days the papers didn't pay all that much attention to ratings. Can't speak to the '61 thing
musketeermadness.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1448&sid=0c21e2f1113263edee83cc68ace91c5a

[_LH]

Here is another question for you two or anyone else for that matter. Was Oscar Robertson ever called for a delay of game while shooting a free throw in a Final 4 game for UC?

[Wisexuowl]

Two answers here ... one for LH and one for Gun.

1) No, Oscar (The greatest player IMHO that ever played the game ... ever) was not called for delay of the game .... but in the Mid-West regional against Kansas State (Bob Boozer) A sophomore, Oscar was at the line, bouncing the ball, and the official standing behind him started a hand motion to count the seconds off. One of O's teammates on the line, yelled to him .. "Oscar, they're counting you down, shoot it." Oscar hurried the throw, and missed it.

2) the AP didn't start doing a post tournament Top Twenty until 1973-74, thus even though Xavier won the NIT in '58 and went to the Dance in '61, they couldn't get a ranking since there were none.
In December of 1958, off the NIT rep and starters returning, Xavier did get up as high as #7.

Also Gun ... that '61 field had just seven "at-large" entries and 17 conference champions .. big time basketball power conferences like the Yankee, Colonial, Southwest, MAC, while Independents like Notre Dame, Xavier,
Miami (FL),Georgia Tech, Loyola (Ill). Detroit, Dayton, Marquette, Louisville, Houston, Loyola (NO), Bona, St John's, Boston College, Providence, Fordham, etc etc etc ... sat around for the crumbs .. maybe. And, they didn't move teams then either. Example, in '61 Xavier and Louisville were selected, but if Dayton hadn't already accepted the NIT, then one of us would have been bumped.

Remembering .... in '61 we were campaigning hard for one of the slots. Loyola was doing the same likewise, as was Detrit and Notre Dame.
Our final two games were on the road against Marquette and Loyola (In Chicago Stadium on a double header with UK playing Marquette in the first game). So, the NCAA announced on Friday, the bid would go to the winner of the Xavier-Loyola game.
Thus, we really won an "NCAA" game that year by beating Loyola just to get into the dance.
Hell of it was, Morehead thus got to scout the game and were sitiing at home. We didn't get back to the campus until Sunday afternoon, got in a practice on Monday and Tuesday, and then had to bus to Louisville for the game on Wednesday ..and still (after getting some "home cookin') we only lost by five.
How do I remember all this? We, 24 hours before we left on that previous Wednesday for Milwaukee, our oldest son was born. Saw him (and Mom) five times (an hour each time) between then and eight days later when I took them home ... and then four days later had to leave for Kansas City and the Final Four.
Kinda neat she put up with that ... but she's as much in love with Xavier as I am ... though she drew the line in nameing any of the youngin's XAVIER!