Unfortunately, X saved their (next-to) worst game for last*

[Xpectations]

Okay, Gary, I'll spell it out. I am NOT saying this post started the mass exodus (remember you're favorite saying, "Don't infer what wasn't implied."). I am saying that posts LIKE this one are a big reason why that board has become more popular amongst XU fans than this one, despite the incredibly rich history of this forum.

Here's the much bigger issue. If you want to address something then address this ... It's clear you still don't get the distinction between being a discerning fan and being tactful, compassionate and showing discretion. You equate compassion and tact with being a Pollyanna.

The vast majority of fans are discerning, including likely every one that you've labeled a Pollyanna. It's just that they don't feel this internal obligation to rip individual players. You truly feel obligated to do so. You do it in the name of honesty and balance. You then extrapolate that anyone who doesn't do so must have been perfectly happy with Player A, B and C's performance. Or they're blind to mistakes and shortcomings. Otherwise they'd be singling out players too.

Dammit, Gary. We saw the same game you did. I'm confident we experienced the same level of frustration with every bad pass, missed shot and missed defensive assignment. We felt that way because we wanted to win just as badly as you did. We wanted OUR guys to win. We wanted OUR seniors to win.

Those people simply chose not to post about those frustrations. The Pollyannas reflected on the season as a whole and their net opinion of the players and coaching staff is that they gave us our best season ever. They gave supreme effort and focus. They gave everything they had. And that’s how we "honestly" remember them; that’s how we choose to “paint” them not only in our thoughts, but in our posted words. Why would we tear down the very people who gave us such a season of thrills and excitement?

It's called discretion and taking a balanced view. Ironically, you believe taking a balanced view is posting all of the negatives, finger-pointing at individual players and coaches -- as though somehow the only people who see shorcomings are those who post about them and single out the "perpetrators," all in the name of keeping it real and balanced.

We Pollyannas are so proud of our players and coaches that any of the inevitable mistakes they made along the way are completely dwarfed by their positive efforts and results. That, and we don't see the value in ripping them because we're all in this together. If that makes one a Pollyanna then I plead guilty as charged..

Several of the guys who busted their asses and achieved us our best-ever season played their last games ever at Xavier. They deserve a better public showing by their fans. At least, that's my opinion.

[Mr. Neutral]

OK, X, I see your points, but, as John Turturro says at least once in almost every movie of his, "you (guy) make me laugh".

I've been a LOT less critical this year, I was never one of the guys calling for Miller's head this year, and I repeatedly complimented the players and coaching staff on their efforts. But nobody noticed; too f***ing blind, I guess.

But put up one post that doesn't blast any player as a person, doesn't say that any player shouldn't have a scholarship or is a terrible player overall, doesn't blast the coaching staff in any way, but does take issue with how some guys played in a specific game, and I'm a psychopath, to steal a description from another poster.

And, last but certainly not least, when some posters (who have since migrated elsewhere) were putting up posts about my family, calling my sister things like "skanky hag", "whore", etc., and making light of the deaths of my brother and father, not one of you hypocritical two-faced SOBs said a single f***ing thing about it. Or, if anyone did, it was just "oh, that's just so-and-so's sense of humor".

So, if calling my sister a whore, and making fun of my family members' deaths' is all well and good with you guys, as it clearly is, then don't even think about calling for my head because you felt I was too harsh about a player's performance.

I'm not buying it, now or in the future.

Bottom line, I see your points, X, and they're valid. But it has long been more than OK to take vicious personal shots at me and my family, but not OK to criticize a player's game performance. To me, that's the height of hypocrisy.

Throw in the time when one of our posters called my office-my OFFICE-and tried to get me fired, and maybe you can see why I'm a little less than inclined to agree with their sensitivities.

[Xpectations]

OK, X, I see your points, but, as John Turturro says at least once in almost every movie of his, "you (guy) make me laugh".

I've been a LOT less critical this year, I was never one of the guys calling for Miller's head this year, and I repeatedly complimented the players and coaching staff on their efforts. But nobody noticed; too f***ing blind, I guess.

But put up one post that doesn't blast any player as a person, doesn't say that any player shouldn't have a scholarship or is a terrible player overall, doesn't blast the coaching staff in any way, but does take issue with how some guys played in a specific game, and I'm a psychopath, to steal a description from another poster.

And, last but certainly not least, when some posters (who have since migrated elsewhere) were putting up posts about my family, calling my sister things like "skanky hag", "whore", etc., and making light of the deaths of my brother and father, not one of you hypocritical two-faced SOBs said a single f***ing thing about it. Or, if anyone did, it was just "oh, that's just so-and-so's sense of humor".

So, if calling my sister a whore, and making fun of my family members' deaths' is all well and good with you guys, as it clearly is, then don't be a two-faced lying bastard and come calling for my head because you felt I was too harsh about a player's performance.

I'm not buying it, now or in the future.

For the record, Gary, any posts like that about your family would disgust me. Anyone making light of your father's death is a freaking sad excuse for a human being. Period.

I can honestly say that I didn't see those posts but I'm confident they appeared simply because you said they did, and I believe you're very truthful and a good guy who I happen to disagree with on some of these issues.

There's no excuse for posting anything, let alone even thinking anything like that -- none -- regardless of any personal beef those posters may have had with you.

I'm very sorry for that. No one should be subjected to that.

[Mr. Neutral]

Thanks, X, and a little cooling off never hurts.

Was I too harsh on individual players following the UCLA loss? Part of me says no, but I understand where others would disagree.

My intention (if I had one) was simply blowing off postgame frustration over a performance that was obviously not our best. I've probably been more supportive and less critical this year than in previous years, believe it or not. We all mellow (somewhat) with age.

But I think you understand where I'm coming from on this. For years, the most personal of insults directed at me and my family have been absolutely OK with everyone, but possibly go overboard in assessing a player's performance, and I'm the anti-Christ. It seems like a double standard to me, but I guess there's double standards everywhere.

That having been said, yes, it was a very exciting season, and, yes, everyone-coaches and players-should be proud of what they accomplished.

[Eastside_J]

OK, X, I see your points, but, as John Turturro says at least once in almost every movie of his, "you (guy) make me laugh".

I've been a LOT less critical this year, I was never one of the guys calling for Miller's head this year, and I repeatedly complimented the players and coaching staff on their efforts. But nobody noticed; too f***ing blind, I guess.

But put up one post that doesn't blast any player as a person, doesn't say that any player shouldn't have a scholarship or is a terrible player overall, doesn't blast the coaching staff in any way, but does take issue with how some guys played in a specific game, and I'm a psychopath, to steal a description from another poster.

And, last but certainly not least, when some posters (who have since migrated elsewhere) were putting up posts about my family, calling my sister things like "skanky hag", "whore", etc., and making light of the deaths of my brother and father, not one of you hypocritical two-faced SOBs said a single f***ing thing about it. Or, if anyone did, it was just "oh, that's just so-and-so's sense of humor".

So, if calling my sister a whore, and making fun of my family members' deaths' is all well and good with you guys, as it clearly is, then don't be a two-faced lying bastard and come calling for my head because you felt I was too harsh about a player's performance.

I'm not buying it, now or in the future.

For the record, Gary, any posts like that about your family would disgust me. Anyone making light of your father's death is a freaking sad excuse for a human being. Period.

I can honestly say that I didn't see those posts but I'm confident they appeared simply because you said they did, and I believe you're very truthful and a good guy who I happen to disagree with on some of these issues.

There's no excuse for posting anything, let alone even thinking anything like that -- none -- regardless of any personal beef those posters may have had with you.

I'm very sorry for that. No one should be subjected to that.

Wow, I mean I can't think of anything else to say to that. Wow.

Conflict is de rigeur on a message board as are mild shots etc. But that kind of behavior is freakin crazy. Major, major line crossing in every sense.

Sorry to hear that Mr. N, I agree with Xpectations no one should have to endure that kind of treatment.

[xeus]

Gary, I don't recall the comments about your family. I assume you deleted that crap immediately.

But either way, others' treatment of you is no justification for your treatment of our players on this board. You are here - you can defend yourself if need be, or even delete the offending posts. Our players are not able to defend themselves here, which is why others do it for them.

But according to you, I'm hypocritical because I defend our players but not you ...

[Xman95]

Gary, I know I didn't make posts about your family (I'm sure you know that), but I apologize on behalf of the XU family for anyone that did. It's unacceptable and disgusting. I won't wish bad things on those people, but hopefully they'll fall into a batch of class in the near future.

As I have said before, I actually enjoy your posts and often agree with you. But, as you would probably admit, your style can rub people the wrong way. (Rub somebody the right way and you'll probably have a friend for life!)

I didn't agree with your post about the players after the game, but I stated on the other board that you were probably just venting after a disappointing loss. Maybe a little time before getting to the keyboard would have been good at that point.

Yes, I did say the other board. I do find it enjoyable because there is a different feel to it and quite a few people are on there. But I still enjoy this one too because I think there's quality here and, well, it can be fun at MM. So I'll still be here (not that I'm a 40-post-per-day guy or anything) and look forward to talking XU hoops with you...and baseball over the summer.

And thanks for all your work here...I know it's not an easy gig.

[Xman95]

Gary, I don't recall the comments about your family. I assume you deleted that crap immediately.

But either way, others' treatment of you is no justification for your treatment of our players on this board. You are here - you can defend yourself if need be, or even delete the offending posts. Our players are not able to defend themselves here, which is why others do it for them.

But according to you, I'm hypocritical because I defend our players but not you ...

Xeus, if people bash Gary for ripping the players but say nothing when posters are making fun of his deceased relatives, that is pretty hypocritical.

As for Gary being able to defend himself, but they players can't...why? They can register and post, can't they?

Now, obviously I don't expect them to do that. And I also don't expect them to worry about what a bunch of middle aged farts like us have to say on a message board.

Gary was supposedly too negative and, amazingly, the team won 30 games and the players probably feel pretty good about it. Are they really going to give a crap about some Mr. Neutral who ripped them after the UCLA game because he was upset? Probably not.

Look, I don't agree with what he posted. But I think he's taking WAY too much heat for it. I realize he has a history of being viewed as a Negative Nelly and, over time, maybe it just all built up to a point where people had enough. I haven't made this board my life so I probably haven't had the large doses of it that everyone else has.

But I don't think Gary's a bad guy, just a fan who might get too emotionally invested and wants his team to reach the summit of college hoops. Unfortunately that hasn't happened and his way of letting off steam doesn't mesh well with others.

As it stands, I think people will be just fine with two quality boards to choose from. People like myself, who enjoy the posters here and there, will visit both. Others will pick one or the other. Regardless, we need to all keep supporting the team and the university. We all have our own way of being a fan, but ultimately we love XU and all want the same thing.

[xeus]

I don't recall people making fun of his family member's deaths, so I can only assume that stuff was deleted immediately. But part of the problem with this board is that those douchebags should have been banned immediately. Why weren't they? There's no excuse for allowing that kind of presence on the board in my opinion.

And you know full well the players have no reasonable opportunity to defend themselves.

But whatever.

[Xman95]

I don't recall people making fun of his family member's deaths, so I can only assume that stuff was deleted immediately. But part of the problem with this board is that those douchebags should have been banned immediately. Why weren't they? There's no excuse for allowing that kind of presence on the board in my opinion.

And you know full well the players have no reasonable opportunity to defend themselves.

But whatever.

My point with that was that they won't come here to defend themselves, obviously. But I'm assuming they also don't really give a sh!t what we think, so they don't need to defend themselves. That being said, can you imagine the respect we would have for a player who did drop by and post with us on occasion?!? Plus, I would assume that many people would hesitate to blast a player if he knew that player would be here to call him on it. Ah, what fun that would be!

As for those making fun of GG's family, I agree that they should have been bounced. That type of stuff shouldn't be tolerated in the least.

Hopefully you don't think I'm trying to pick a fight or anything. I'm probably the most middle-of-the-road guy you'll come across here. I just think Gary has taken a lot of crap and people are really dialing it up and making him out to be such a bad guy. First, I don't think he is. Second, if I'm wrong and he really is, why did so many people come here and post with him in the first place?

OK, enough of that. Back to why we really visit these places:

GO X!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (in '08-'09, of course...and recruiting)