Guards= who will redshirt?

[muskieman]

I didn't say I don't see a possible positive for the team and maybe for the player with a red shirt but then if we asked you to say in college one more year how eager would you have been? Second if you use a red shirt which at the time Cole did it was not a Miller decision and it turned out poorly for X and the King as his injury in his Jr year prohibited him from gaining an additional year.

A second question LH WHY red shirt a player if he can contribute and has scoring ability and defense simply because you have multiple players at that position?

[Mr. Neutral]

<<<WHY red shirt a player if he can contribute and has scoring ability and defense simply because you have multiple players at that position?>>>

Under that scenario, you're certainly correct, mm.
But, for the sake of argument, let's say a Brad Redford (and I just chose him semi-randomly) ends up playing the 69 minutes that Bronson played this year, or even less. Would it make sense to redshirt Redford under that scenario?

Obviously, none of this will be remotely clear until practice starts, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

[Shadow]

Adding yet another scenario, suppose an individual that would be under the conditions previously discussed, is enrolled in a program that offers an advanced degree. Should he want the Masters in his scholastic endeavors, it would benefit both the team and the individual by endowing him with an extra year of scholarship.

[_LH]

I agree with Gary (did I really just write that). Redshirting makes sense for the one to two guys that are not going to factor into the rotation and it will be a benefit for them later in their careers at XU.

If college was paid for like it was for Cole, I would have loved another year in college.

It did work out for Cole as he would have played 2 minutes a game behind West as a freshman instead of being a big contributer in his last season at XU.

[muskieman]

It makes sense if that is the only criteria but that is not always the case.

LH maybe you are the type that liked to stay one more year but most want to get out and make their mark, it is the competitiveness in many people.

[wkrq59]

Problem I see with redshirting even for one more year of advanced studies, is the Mauk or Thornton scenario--
Player A redshirts his freshman year..Unlike Derrick Brown, he starts his second year(redshirt freshman year) and blows out a knee in the third game of the season or tears an achiles or whatever injury that causes him to lose a season. Now he only has three years of eligibility left unless he can successfully petition the NCAA for a 6th year.
I know Thornton was a transfer, but he could have used another year.
Yeah, it's a crap shoot, BUT if a kid can contribute, I don't care how little his time is at the start of the year, forget the damned redshirt year.
What we're assuming here is that Redford or any of the freshmen for that matter, will be unable to earn the playing time because of:
* a lack--of talent? Doubtful
*a lack of competitive spirit? Damn I sure hope not.
*a tendency to quit in frustration? Damn I sure hope not.
*a complete inability to learn defense the way Sean wants it played? I sure hope not.
*a sudden inability to hit any shot? Damn I sure hope not.
Dante Jackson did not set the world on fire early in the season. Where would Xavier have been without him late in the year and in the NCAA?
As of right now, there are 13 players competing for playing time. Considering the schedule Xavier has ahead of it on the OOC side, I can see every single player being asked to contribute, especially in the backcourt.
Must we assume that a pure shooter--from what I have seen, anyway--like Redford will be so inept that some will wonder why he received a scholarship? Must we assume that a young man as widely sought as he was, would even agree to a redshirt? Do we have to assume that he lacks the ability to learn quickly both on defense and in offensive sets? I say no to all those questions. Think of how valuable he'd be catching an inbounds pass and being fouled when X is trying to protect a lead.
Injuries can play a huge part in any teams season. Even if any of the freshmen redshirt, we know they can be restored to active status. But the player will have lost opportunities for game experience.
Think about this too. If Sean has to ask a player to redshirt, won't that be an admission that he or his assistant who helped recruit the freshman, made an error in judgment. Remember, Redford, whom several have automatically assigned a shirt, was the tallest player on his team and he amassed some incredible shooting, scoring and free throw shooting marks.
As far as I'm concerned, I hope redshirting is the absolute last resort for any of the five freshmen.

[Mr. Neutral]

<<Remember, Redford, whom several have automatically assigned a shirt, was the tallest player on his team>>

Q, Xavier lists him at 6'0" and 170 lbs., so if he was the tallest player on his team (1) we recruited the ballboy forced into the lineup in "Hoosiers", or (2) he played in some 6'0" and under league.

He may come out of the gate firing, but it's not hard to imagine his having difficulty adjusting to playing against guys taller, faster and stronger than he's played against before.

[_LH]

Q,

You have been following XU a lot longer than me. Can you tell me how many times in the last 30 years that XU has been 10 deep let alone 13 deep? Most years the rotation is around 8. That leaves 5 scholarship players playing very few minutes per game. If one can sit out the year when they will be one of those 5, why wouldn't that player take the chance? There is no way XU will need 13 to contribute in the games. Redshirting does not prevent them from practicing and that is where they will continue to grow as players. Playing 1-2 minutes a game will not help them or XU but having him as a fifth year senior playing 20 plus minutes will.

Really, I see very little downside to redshirting one of the freshman that will not see but 2 minutes per game.

When was the last time XU had 5 incoming freshman in one season with 4 of them guards? There simply is no way they will all contribute mathematically and they will have to understand that. It just makes sense to redshirt at least one of these guys.

MM,

I don't think anyone in these guys situations would turn down an extra year of college that is completely paid for while working on their masters degree or taking other graduate classes. They have the next 45 years to be out in the real world.

[MuskieCinci]

Just look at UC's Ben Mauk. He has been in college for 5 years and is fighting for the chance to get a 6th. I don't think 5 free years of college is that bad at all.

As for the Dante comment, he was in a completely different situation than this year's group of guys. Dante was in a recruiting class of 1 and he was rated by rivals as a top 100 player. We were much shorter on guards and Sean needed him to play to give Stan and Drew breaks during the game. It was also necessary for Dante to get game experience because we were about to graduate 2 very experienced senior guards, so we needed to bring back someone for this upcoming year with experience running the guard positions. It would make much more sense to redshirt someone this year.

[wkrq59]

Gary, the newspaper accounts that I have read say he was the tallest on his team. The videos we have seen show him competing successfully against much taller and sometimes more athletic players.

LH, over the years I can think of several Xavier teams that went 8-10 deep or more, but any further discussions of this redshirt business are a waste of my time. I prefer to wait and see how the entire scenario plays out.
The only thing I will say is this is absolutely the most talented recruiting class Xavier has had in many, many years. Like NFL draft classes, it takes sometimes a year or more to see their worth.
But I am certain of one thing. I think the quickest way to discourage future recruits is to even consider demanding one or more redshirt. There are no doubt many upsides to both the shirt and the non-shirt. In this day and age, however, when more and more players are being wooed into one-and-dones and when the competition for talent is at an all-time high, it seems to me foolish to stubbornly insist that someone will HAVE to redshirt, especially on a team that will be at best offensively challenged.